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Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 03, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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I read thourgh the spring info you have on your website and sent you an email. However, I gave you the wrong spring number in my email. Anyway, I am trying to select the right springs for my car. I have a big block four speed, and I would like to lower the car about 2". I don't plan on autocross or track events, but I would like to do some agressive street driving. Right now, I am thinking 200lbs/in in the rear, and about 625lbs/in in the front. Can you please give me some more information about the rear spings, and any suggestions.

Thanks
Ken

69 RS, 427, 4-spd<br />69 Corvette Coupe, 427, 4-spd
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 03, 06:03 PM
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Ken- , without knowing more than what you have told me, I am only able to give you approximates. I also dont know if you are asking for or about a spring recommendation based off of the spring page on my site. FYI, to configure a spring I will need more detail on you current and future chassis set-up.

Needed known or specific approximates:
Front spring rate (to the pound if possible).
Any fiberglass used for body components.
Battery location.
Engine type, build, materials used, accessories (Alloy heads, manifold, exhaust system....etc).
Power produced; As accurately as possible (NO BS'ing) to include future modificatios.
Additional or removed weight (Addition of Roll bar/cage, use of alloy radiator, different seats....etc).
Sway-bar size and manufacturer.
Type and part number of shocks.
Wheel and tire size.
Transmission and differential gearing.
Suspension modifications (a-arms, bushing material, Guldstrand Mod....etc).

You can either send this to me as an e-mail discreetly, or share it with all here. I will leave that up to you.

If you just want an approxitate, I think a 220lb rear with a 625lb front would be close. But due to the above mentioned variants, the rear rate can be anywhere from 200 to 250lbs. If you have springs made, I am sure you would want to get it done right the first time. So, that is why I ask the questons I do.

Let me know........
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 21st, 03, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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chicane,
Thanks for the reply. What I am giving you below is what the car will be shortly; and this is what I want to tune for:

-all steel body
-battery relocated to trunk
-cast iron 427 big block, aluminum intake, large tube headers, HEI
-best guess HP is 300, torque is 450 ft lbs
-Bilstein shocks, BE3-2972 front, AK2074 rear
-17" TTII wheels, 275/40/17 rear tires, 245/45/17 front
-Muncie M21 tranny
-3.70 12 bolt rear
-solid body bushings
-welded subframe connectors
-poly bushings with Guldstrand mod


This is what I know. I haven't decided on sway bars yet. Right now I have the stock front springs, but I am going to put new ones in at the same time as the leafs. I was planning on getting one of the Moog springs, and cutting it to the proper ride height. I was planning on having the springs made. I am asking about the spring layout on your webiste. I would like to be able to send that to the spring manufacturer and have a good feeling that the end product will be what I want.

I am fine with this on the forum, because I'm sure someone else needs to go through this process as well. Thanks for your help, and please let me know what else you need from me.

Thanks
Ken

69 RS, 427, 4-spd<br />69 Corvette Coupe, 427, 4-spd
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 03:11 PM
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Alright Ken, here it goes.........I am going to give you my recommendations in rates/parts first, and then explain why.

The Front End:
Either a MOOG 6041 or a Hyperco 650# with Landrum spring adjuster.

A 7/8 or 15/16" bar would be a good place to start. But with the top heavy nature of a big block, a 1" wouldnt be a bad choise, but I also wouldnt run anything bigger.

The question/answer lies in the overall ride height. When you get to a certain lowered height, you will need a specific spring rate to keep it off of the bump stops with an iron headed big block. The cool thing with the adjuster is, you can change the height whenever you want. I run a alloy headed small block with a 700ish # version of the MOOG 6041 and there are times I actually want more spring.....where I could get away with it because of having more sidewall with 16" wheels/tires.

No matter which you choose, I dont think you will go wrong. I would run a 6041 just because of the big block. BUT the 650# would be more compliant to what you were looking for in a aggressive street suspension without being too hard with the 17" wheel/tires. A good compromise.....

The Rear End:
A modified FIA design with a rate between 250 and 260lbs when using the Hyperco 650# front coils; and between 290 and 300lbs with the MOOG 6041, at the -2" ride height you are suggesting.

No rear sway bar.

Hotchkis style suspensions dont need a sway bar if there is enough spring in the suspension, considering that you are wanting to lower the chassis.

If you desire to have a set built, I will draw the diagram for you to send/give to the spring builder. They will have the leaf thickness and the individual leaf lengths as well as spring clamp spacing diamentions. This will take a day or two, as I need to calculate the leaf pac to get it into the +/- 10lb of rate I have stated.

If you can give me a fender height measurement (on all four corners) to how high you want the ride height, it will also help me out with some of the rear spring configuration.

Conclusion:
I am trying not to lean to far towards spring rates that may be more than you want to run or find comfortable. I have tried to take into consideration the bushing material and especially the wheel and tire combo.

The battery location, other stated parts, shocks and drivetrain gearing are on the money, in my opinion. I think the suspension will respond to what you have chosen set-up wise.

Let me know the height and when you may consider doing these and I'll get to the drawing part of it.......
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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chicane,
Thanks for your response. I will go with the Moog part because I can get those easily through work. (On a side note, I searched all over Landrum's site and didn't find the adjuster.) My car is on jackstands now, but I will get some measurements tomorrow. I would like to get started as soon as I can. I was actually in the process of putting the car back together when I found the leafs were broken. I had just reassembled the front suspension and was welding on the new brake caliper brackets on the rear axle. Now I am going to pull the front apart to put in the new springs. I have my tires, but this will kick the new wheels into motion a little sooner than I was thinking.

By the way, I will be in San Diego to see my parents at Christmas time, I would be glad to buy you a refreshing beverage of you choice for helping me out.

Thanks
Ken

69 RS, 427, 4-spd<br />69 Corvette Coupe, 427, 4-spd
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 09:24 PM
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David has a picture on his site of the Landrum spring adjuster:
Davids first Gen page

But you wont need that with the MOOG springs....

I'll start on the initial drawing and when I get the numbers from you I'll just plug them in so we can get this going. Man your lucky it came apart now, when you were not driving or after you get all of the 'new' work done !! Man that would of sucked..........

So the parentals live over in the E-county eh? Good old East Siiiide !! Yeah, I'm a North County Punk (Graduated from Mt. Carmel), but find myself in E-Side and 'ClanTee' all the time (the offroad shop is over by the drive-in). Maybe we can meet up over at Casa Picante for some ghetto tacos and some Pacifico's........ [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 01:02 AM Thread Starter
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All things considered, I feel very lucky. The wife can't argue with buying new springs now. Also, I never really drove this car hard because the old drum brakes sucked.

I am an El Cajon High grad. The parents have moved way east, Campo, but I still have other relatives on the north side, Rainbow, in Clantee, and other parts of the area. I have never heard "Clantee", but that is perfect! Which offroad shop are you talking about? My family is big into sand sports, and I know most of the buggy shops.

69 RS, 427, 4-spd<br />69 Corvette Coupe, 427, 4-spd
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 08:33 AM
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Pro Truck Inc. Run by Craig Stewart (Ivan's son). I used to work for PPI, which did all of the Trophy Truck Prep and maintenance for Ivan's combined effort in SCORE. Ever since the accident, Craig has gotten back into the biz and our little community of friends helps him out as much as possible. Great people.......

And I am into H20 Pumper Sand Rails like this:

V8 Sand Rails

Have been long time friends with Alex over at Fiber Tech along with all the guys at Scorpion Chassis, Fox, Bilstein etc.....

Awe man, gotta get back to work.....
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Good ole Fiber Tech. I have been drooling over stuff in that place since I could walk. I have always wanted a V8 buggy. One of the family friends has a Buick 215 all aluminum V8. However, before I left for school, there weren't many V8's at all. I left before the long travel buggies came around. I can't believe my eyes when I go out now. My dad and his buddy are now Subaru fans. My dad has an XT6 engine, and his buddy is building a long travel with an SVX engine. Before the Subarus, it was Corvairs and VW's. Some day I will build a small block powered buggy for the dunes here in Michigan and maybe a road trip to the Imperial dunes as well.

Anyway, I stopped by DSE this afternoon to pick up some tie rod adjusters. I talked to Kyle about fender heights, and have decided on 25" in the rear, and 24" in the front. I'm getting excited about this car coming together. The new prop valve is supposed to be here tomorrow. Thanks again for the help.

Ken

69 RS, 427, 4-spd<br />69 Corvette Coupe, 427, 4-spd
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 03:50 PM
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spring adjuster: (scroll to bottom)

http://www.landrumspring.com/racing/drag2.html
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for that link. I had looked all through the coil spring section with no luck. I know others have also been looking for this piece on their site.

Thanks again
Ken

69 RS, 427, 4-spd<br />69 Corvette Coupe, 427, 4-spd
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 06:35 PM
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There's some Landrum info and part numbers on my website as well.


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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 03, 12:04 PM
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BB69 and Chicane: If you guys are meeting for cold ones, don't forget to invite me!

Mark

69 SS, ZZ430 Look-alike, Tremec TKO, Hotchkis Suspension
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 03, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Mark,
Sounds like we are having a little party. [img]graemlins/beers.gif[/img] I would like to meet some more guys. I'll let you guys know when we are flying out, but it will be at Christmas time.

Ken

69 RS, 427, 4-spd<br />69 Corvette Coupe, 427, 4-spd
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 03, 05:08 PM
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The AFCO adjuster has a larger center hole than the LANDRUM, if you have large dia shocks consider the AFCO. Most firstgen shocks are pretty small.
David

[ 07-07-2003, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: davidpozzi ]

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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67 RS 327 original owner. 1965 Lola T-70
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