DSE coil over modification - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 03, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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Have any of you installed the DSE Coil Over conversion, and how smooth was the install? I refer to the conversion that removes the factory upper A-Arm mount and replaces it with Coil Over mount and Improved Geometry Mount points for your upper Control Arms. Thanks.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 03, 04:04 PM
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Head on over to Pro-Touring.com and ask Tony Huntimer. And then buy his book.


Scott

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 03, 05:18 PM
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You tell 'em Scott! I have their kit also but haven't installed it yet. It comes with a jig that bolts to where the frame mounts would go to hold the upper shock mounts in perfect position. So anyone with good welding skills or who has access to someone who can weld can complete the conversion pretty easily.

Jody


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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 03, 08:43 PM
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I just installed QA1 Coil Overs and Global West control arms in my 68. I haven't driven the car yet since I'm doing other mods while I have it pulled apart, but this upgrade doesn't require any frame cutting or mods at all. Just pull out the old and bolt in the new. Any reason why you wouldn't go this route? The GW tubular control arms also have an improved geometry compared to original. Just enough to improve the handling noticeably and keep the car streetable.

Truthfully, you shouldn't go overboard in changing the front end geometry. True you can get better handling out of these kits that require the cutting and welding, but you WILL eat up more tires especially if you plan on street driving the car much.

If you're planning on racing only, have a good budget for tires and need every bit of handling improvement you can get, then go for it and cut/weld away.

Tim

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68 SS
ZZ502; TKO-600; 3:73 Moser 12-bolt w/Detroit TruTrak; SSBC Force 10 4 wheel power disks;QA1 Coil Overs; Global West Tubulars;GNX Quick Ratio 12:1 PS; Hotchkis Front Sway Bar
87 Buick Grand National (does 10's)
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 02:30 AM
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I have installed this kit on an extra subframe that I had. The install is straight foward. I spent alot of extra time grinding and smoothing out the frame. I can't wait to put it on this winter.

Its not a hard install, just take your time and enjoy!

69 SS

69 project for my wife - SS 396, Glacier blue

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Meanchicken:
I just installed QA1 Coil Overs and Global West control arms in my 68. I haven't driven the car yet since I'm doing other mods while I have it pulled apart, but this upgrade doesn't require any frame cutting or mods at all. Just pull out the old and bolt in the new. Any reason why you wouldn't go this route? The GW tubular control arms also have an improved geometry compared to original. Just enough to improve the handling noticeably and keep the car streetable.

Truthfully, you shouldn't go overboard in changing the front end geometry. True you can get better handling out of these kits that require the cutting and welding, but you WILL eat up more tires especially if you plan on street driving the car much.

If you're planning on racing only, have a good budget for tires and need every bit of handling improvement you can get, then go for it and cut/weld away.

Tim
Why would the DSE kit cause more tire wear? The QA1 setup is simpler because it just replaces the stock spring and shock with a coilover shock/spring arrangement. I have heard of some issues of lower mount problems on these because you use the original lower shock mount which wasn't designed to support any weight to now hold up the car (unless they've changed that).

The DSE setup puts the position and angle of the shock/spring in a better location which is fully braced and able to control the wheel movement much better. Not sure how that's going to create more tire wear; that'd be determined by how you set the alignment.

Jody


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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 05:26 AM
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LOL Jody! I'm looking forward to Tony's book.

The DS&E mod is something that I'm interested in as well. I'm still looking into different options for the complete chassis, be it DS&E, GW, Due, HTH, leafs, etc.

Greg from HTH e-mailed me and let me know that they are working on using ovalized tubing for the exhaust, to get it to dump at the rear.

I think I'd be very happy with the DS&E tubular/coilovers in the front and the HTH kit in the rear.

Scott

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 06:30 AM
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Scott,

That would be a very nice setup! I just got off the phone with Kyle at DSE and was asking about the Mule setup. I knew he was working on a kit, but he's making some packaging changes and is a little ways off. He said with the DSE a-arms, bushings, and coil overs up front that I have, along with his rear springs and Koni shocks this car will be as good as I'd ever need. Since all the mini-tub, cage, and rear alterations are already done, I don't want to cut it up some more for these other rear suspensions.

Bottom line, you'll be tricker than me!

Jody


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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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69PT

Have you done the mod or are you giving me grief?
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 09:15 AM
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Grief? You mean about buying Tony's book? No way was that meant as grief. Tony is writing a fully illustrated book (actually just finished) about pro-touring mods, performance gains, different applications, options, EFI, yadda, yadda... I'm looking forward to the book, and I guess I went a little overboard.

And to answer your question, no, I haven't done the DSE mod. Yet. I don't want to start any chassis mods until I have a clear picture of exactly what I want.

Scott

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 10:25 AM
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You "Pro-Touring" guys are all the same, you can't just leave well enough alone can you?

Actually, I have a set of Kyles Uppers coming in the next week or too.... [img]graemlins/hurray.gif[/img]

Now, If you two could just move a little further East...LOL.... [img]graemlins/beers.gif[/img]
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 12:31 PM
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Hey Jeff, enjoying your beautiful car? The a-arms from DSE are a MAJOR improvement in handling on these cars. You will be very happy!

By the way, there's a longer cruising season out here in the west!

Jody


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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 03, 07:58 PM
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Why would the DSE kit cause more tire wear? The QA1 setup is simpler because it just replaces the stock spring and shock with a coilover shock/spring arrangement. I have heard of some issues of lower mount problems on these because you use the original lower shock mount which wasn't designed to support any weight to now hold up the car (unless they've changed that).

Jody,
I honestly don't know enough about the DSE kit to tell you if it would wear tires any quicker than the bolt on Global West/QA1 arrangement or others like it form Heidts, Fatman, etc.

I installed both upper and lower GW tubular control arms. The lowers are made to accept the QA1 coil overs and position them properly. I wouldn't even think of bolting coil overs to a stock lower A-arm. I basically yanked the entire front suspension out and am replacing it with modern improved stuff. Looking forwar to experiencing the respons from my 2 turn LtoL GNX power steering box. The old manual one gave me arms like an ape.
My point was not really directed at the DSE kit, I'm sure by the enthusiasm, that DSE's product is very good. It was directed at going too far in upgrading a car intended for street use by cutting the frame up. For street driving and occasional competition, the bolt on alternatives available would most likely suit most enthusiasts. Well engineered bolt on upgrades are also easier to reverse if a person finds they didn't get what they bargained for...or got more than they bargained for.

To counter the statement that tire wear is only determined by alignment, this is not true. For example, a taller spindle will also cause your tires to wear at a higher rate. Geometries of a race suspension are different in many ways than one that is intended for street use. Modifying suspension geometries changes caster camber curves, changes alignment specs and race geometries add up to tires melting away at a higher rate, but gives improved corner carving response.

I think that all of us who are into the Pro touring upgrades for our 1st Gens are after improved handling so we can enjoy the pro touring life, and there are many options available, but you could easliy over do it and come out with a wicked handling machine that chews tires at a rate that would require water cooling on your ATM card. Same is true of the straight line drivers. Do you need a 4-link rear suspension and full tubs for street applications? Nope...but it looks wicked and if you have the power to take advantage of the improved straight line traction you get, then the $7,000 expense (before rim's and tires) is gonna pay dividends in the bracket races.
I'm hear to learn, so let me now if you think I'm under the influence...
: )
Tim [img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img]

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68 SS
ZZ502; TKO-600; 3:73 Moser 12-bolt w/Detroit TruTrak; SSBC Force 10 4 wheel power disks;QA1 Coil Overs; Global West Tubulars;GNX Quick Ratio 12:1 PS; Hotchkis Front Sway Bar
87 Buick Grand National (does 10's)
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 03, 04:03 AM
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Tim,

I interpreted your first post incorrectly; I thought you meant that the DSE kit (which requires cutting and welding) would increase tire wear by itself, and thought the only way that was going to happen with just that change would be to use an aggressive alignment spec.

I don't think you're under the influence!

Jody


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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 03, 07:32 AM
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Man, you guys all have some really gorgeous cars.

1978 Z28, 350, Borg Warner, Hurst Shifter, 3:73's. For Sale
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