Flairing tools - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 03:37 AM Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

I did a search on this and came up with some great tips on double flairing that really helped. It answered all of my questions except one.... How much of the tubing should be above the tool to get the best results? On 3/8 and 5/16 tubing I have been leaving about 1/8" above the tool. Seems wo work ok but I really do not have anything to compare it to. I am just practicing now.

Dan.

327 Small Journal, Air Gap, Edelbrock 600 CFM,
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 04:18 AM
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I have a tool set, more or less like the one on the photo, and it specifies to use the double flare die (small black piece) to set the exposed material lenght. In my case, I have to put the die up-side down and use a step it has, as gauge. Hope this helps & buena suerte! cause I haven't been so lucky with double flares, specially 3/16". [img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img]


[ 06-22-2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: ORENCH ]

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry ORENCH,

For some reason I cannot open your picture. However from your reply that tells me that there is a specific length that is supposed to be used.

I'll try to open it later, maybe I'll have better luck.
Dan.

Dan.

327 Small Journal, Air Gap, Edelbrock 600 CFM,
Comp 262H-10
Vortec heads
M20, 3.08,
Vintage Air

1988 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 05:58 AM
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1) Lightly clamp the tube into the two-piece clamp.

2) Take the upsetting mandrel that you normally use to start the upset process and place it head-down on the top surface of the clamp where the tube is sticking through.

3) There should be a small step on the outside diameter of the mandrel. The distance is between 1/8" - 1/4" depending on the tube diameter. Push the tube through the clamp until the end of the tube is at the same height as the first step in the mandrel.

4) Tighten the clamp and start the flaring process.

I too have had poor luck using the standard flaring tools. David has one of the nice hydraulic types. Perhaps he will comment on how it works on the smaller sizes.

I've given up on bench double flares. Everything I do now is stainless single flares, and when possible AN type.


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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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ORENCH, The picture finally loaded.
That is the same type of tool I'm using. It's a 45 degree tool.

CarlC At the risk of looking like a dufus here [img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img] I have to ask. Is this a 2 step process or is the tube supposed to double flair in 1 step?

I tried it the way you discribed but I must still be doing something wrong.

Can the single stainless flair be used instead of the double flair on steel?
Dan.

Also

.
Dan.

Dan.

327 Small Journal, Air Gap, Edelbrock 600 CFM,
Comp 262H-10
Vortec heads
M20, 3.08,
Vintage Air

1988 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 08:59 AM
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I have the Mastercool hydraulic tube double flaring tool and it has not failed to flare correctly even once! [img]smile.gif[/img] I have done 3/16" tube a dozen times so far.

Without looking, I'd say the tube needs to stick up around 3/16", -it's the thickness of the "upset" tool which is included with a double flare set. If you have a single flare set, you don't have the upset tool.

I have an Imperial kit that is not good at flairing double flares. The upset tool for that kit has a good sized radus where the centering pin comes out of the upset tool. The hydraulic flare tool I have uses an upset tool that has no large radus, thi seems to help it flare better.

I hear the Snap-On flare tool is great.

Here is what Inline Tube says:
"Tips For a Perfect Flare - When flaring tube it is important to read all the instructions carefully. Before you flair the tube, deburr and chamfer both edges of the tube, this allows the tube to roll over and create a smooth edge. To deburr the inside edge use a drill or file and rotate the file in the opening of the tube, the outside edge can be done with a standard file. Tube cracking is caused when the tube is not properly deburred. Do not cut tube with a tube cutter. The cutter when dull, hardens the end of the tube, causing flaring to be very difficult. Flaring tube takes practice and an understanding of how the tools works. Once the practice is put in the understanding will come."

Here is the Team Chevelle page on flaring brake lines. http://www.chevelles.com/tools/tl4.html

I haven't tried flaring SS, I have heard the tube is pretty stiff, inline Tube says theirs is soft enough to double flare and recomends it be double flared.
http://www.inlinetube.com/cartalk.htm

I think if you are going to use Stainless tube it would be better to use 37 degree single flare on it and aircraft 37 deg fittings all around.

45 deg fittings were made for soft steel brakeline, the 45 deg flare stretches the tube more and will MAY cause cracking of the tube if single flared.
David

[ 06-24-2003, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: davidpozzi ]

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 01:12 PM
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Yes Dan, it's a two step process. First using the small black die and then removing it and finishing the flare using the cone shaped part of the tool only.
Quote:
Do not cut tube with a tube cutter. The cutter when dull, hardens the end of the tube, causing flaring to be very difficult.
David, what's recommended to cut the tubing if a tube cutter isn't? Maybe thats what happening to me...

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 01:34 PM
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Good points David.

I myself use a small abrasive chop saw or an 'oil bath' cutting saw and have basically ended my problems with cracking the end of the tube when flaring it.

Also, I use Snap-On's flaring kits with good results and the shoulder of the bubble die is the length you are susposed to extend the tube through the clamp portion. Any further and it tends to brakeoff the 'nipple' on the bubble die when you fold it over, before finishing the 'Double'..... and I have broken a few......
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I think I know why I am having trouble! [img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img]
I do not have the adapter for the first step that is shown in the photos posted by ORENCH and in the link posted by David. What I do have is the 45 degree cone and 3 other fittings which are "steped" to fit different size tubing. I unscrew the cone and screw on the stepped adapter in it place. What are these used for? Do they take the place of my missing part?

David, thanks for links.... lots of good info!

Dan.

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327 Small Journal, Air Gap, Edelbrock 600 CFM,
Comp 262H-10
Vortec heads
M20, 3.08,
Vintage Air

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 05:30 PM
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The Imperial 437-FB tool, though not rated for stainless, does a good job performing single 37* flares on stainless tubing. A little oil on the flare and some ARP moly lube on the tool threads makes the job a bunch easier.

As of late I've been using a fine-tooth hacksaw to cut the tube and then dressing the end with a file. I really need to invest in a $25 adapter to turn a 4" angle grinder into a mini chopsaw. Chamfering the bore and deburring the O.D. is a necessity to get it done right.

One other nice feature that AN/37* fitting offer is the use of a conical seal. If the sealing surfaces have minor damage that create leaks these seals can save the day.

Finding the correct 3/16" stainless tubing from local metal supply houses is hit-or-miss. Aircraft Spruce has all sizes, it flares easily, and the prices are pretty good. Plus, if it's good enough for an airplane, it's good enough for the Camaro.


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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 07:32 PM
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Carl,
Harbor Freight has a dandy little blue colored 6" chopsaw that when on sale is only $26. !
It is also great for cutting braded hose, it does a terriffic job.
I like that it is more portable than the large cutoff saws, and the thinner blade makes less of a mess. AND it's darn CHEAP!
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 03, 08:09 PM
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I bought that same one on sale at Harbor Freight for $29.00 a year and a half ago......just to cut stainless steel braided hose and brake hard line.

For $29.00 you couldnt go wrong !! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 12:39 PM
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$26 = No Brainer

I've lost more blood than that from the damn stainless wires poking holes in my finger.


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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CarlC:
I've lost more blood than that from the damn stainless wires poking holes in my finger.
ROFLMFAO !!
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 23rd, 03, 07:19 PM
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With the cutoff wheel there is much less fraying than using a hacksaw like I used to. I like the Aeroquip brand hose too, less broken strands along the hose to run into.
I'm plumbing a dry sump in dash 12 hose for the Lola, and it's a pain, plus the fittings are breaking the bank! [img]graemlins/sad.gif[/img]
David

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