Protouring look..drag race hook! - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 03, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
6D9
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Ron
 
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I am going for the protouring/g machine look on my 69 Camaro(already got the 335's). The car will be mini tubbed. I want the low stance and but still want it to hook at the strip. I will run et streets for the track. I planned on going with drop spindles in the front to get the low look but still have a soft spring. For the rear I planned on dearching the springs . With the right traction bars will this type of set up hook ?

69 Camaro
491/AFR 315'S/Straub hyd roller
TH400/GV OD
9" 3.50
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 03, 10:45 AM
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Traction bars will kill you in the corners and drag shocks arn't recomended for the street... You really can't have the best of both worlds (1.6 or better sec 60's and cornering on rails) but you can find products that give up a little in each direction and get the job done. Hotchkis rear 1 1/2" drop leafs in the rear are said to work about as well as slapper style traction bars when combined with a good shock. Disconnecting the end links from the sway bar when at the 1/4 mile track may help weight transfer too.

Do a search in the Brake and Suspension forum as suspensions have been hashed over dozens of times and there's lots of aftermarket stuff out there and most has been through the gauntlet here...

...Dennis

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 03, 12:37 PM
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Depends on how fast youre gonna run!
If - lets say you run 12s with a 1.65 60ft, then it wont matter what kind of suspension
set up you have, just stick the ET streets on it and it will hook. But if youre gonna
run in the 11s, then you may need more then just sticky tires to hook. Go and run
your car first, ET streets will hook a 12sec. or slower car easy [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

67 camaro
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502 - 626hp 252/263HRcam 1.44, 10.08 @ 132.7
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 03, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Ron
 
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I really dont car if it pulls 1 g in the corners. I just want decent handling . I figure the tires alone will help tons on the handling dept. At the track I will run ET streets so as long as the suspension isnt board stiff it should hook ok?

69 Camaro
491/AFR 315'S/Straub hyd roller
TH400/GV OD
9" 3.50
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 05:41 AM
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Like I said, do a search in the Brake and Suspension forum. Use several different key words to get info on different parts of your suspension. Drop spindles work well on trucks but there's been a ton of negative feed back on them for Camaros.

...Dennis

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 06:32 AM
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Has alot to do with weight transfer when you get to low 12's amd quicker. Email me or take a look at my car to see what it takes to get into low 11's high tens, n/a of course.

Guido

67 Camaro Built with Cubic Money

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 06:47 AM
 
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QA1 12 way adjustable shocks
or if $ is no object AFCO's are more linear
can gain alot in these alone
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 02:22 PM
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Guido, if you haven't found 502 emblems yet, here you go. http://www.chevelle.danchuk.com/page128.html#9

The others are standard emblems.

Dennis, why will traction bars kill him in the corners? My car corners better with them. I've hit mid 1.6 60's with 'em too. Slapper bars.

Lonnie

67 Camaro [email protected], [email protected], 1.455 60ft 421sbc
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 05:27 PM
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Lonnie - I'm in no way a suspension expert so bare with my decriptions and maybe Tom or David will pipe up. When going into a corner a slapper bar is going to abruptly change the spring rate of the inboard spring when it makes contact as the spring is being compressed. This will tend to make the rear end unstable and more likely to to kick out causing the rear to become loose. This will be greatly multiplied on a rough surface where the suspension is being put through it's paces.

I took a look at your driver and if it's still setup the way the your website portrays it I'm inclined to say you are a better driver than your car is a "G" machine. Don't take that wrong as it's not an insult. IMO your car is too high, your 15" 205-70's up front are conducive to causing the front end to push with all that sidewall and I bet your rear end is all over the road when high speed cornering with slapper bars and those 28" tall 275-60's. Again don't take this wrong because you have an awesome Camaro with very impressive times for a 1320 burner let alone a daily driver! The fact that you say it's fast in the corners is a tribute to your driving skills. If you climbed behind the wheel of some of these true "G" machines you would see what I'm saying.

Now something like CalTracs ( http://www.calvertracing.com/info/info.htm ) that have constant contact with the spring and don't shock the spring like a slapper bar does might be a good comprimise but a set of Hotchkis springs or similar should provide just about as good of a hook and will be a major improvement in the corners...

...Dennis

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 06:25 PM
 
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Dennis has basically made light of what will happen. As the suspension is compressed, if the traction bar were to make contact with the spring, it could (and most likely will) load the spring so much that an increase of that ammount will cause the roll stillness become TOO much and oversteer will occur. This can become very dangerous in multiple situations, specifically cornering and even worse in braking through a corner.......I know loose is fast, but it will mostly swap ends before you even have a chance to react.

If you stick to using leaf springs, which I recommend (unless you're considering a four-link), the use of Hotchkis or the design that I have on my web page will do wonders. The Hotchkis springs are biased more toward the front which helps traction and supress wheel hop, or, the design on my page that is specifically configured to increase forward bite and eliminate wheel hop all together. This design spring has been installed on cars that will pull a G latteral and run mid-to-high 10's. In fact these springs come out of the hole rather well.....

Things to think about for those of you that are considering 315/335's, is that the spring rate has to be increased more than if you were to run say a 275'ish rear tire. The lateral roll increase from the sizable addition of tire (lateral traction) requires more rate to control the ability of the increased side loads the 315/335's are capable of.

Its also obvious that the 205/70's are on their way out right? That doesnt help your situation either.

My input is, change the springs (design and rate) to match what you are going to run in the front and go from there. You can have the best of both worlds.....its just not going to be the best at either excessive end of the suspension spectrum. Meaning, its not going to do 9's and pull over a G, but it you have enough power it will run 10's and it will pull right up to a G. The spring can be configured for rates from, around and less than 175#'s to over 300, so you dont really need to be board stiff to get where you need to be.

Food for thought I guess..........
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 07:56 PM
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Chicane67,
what spring set-up would you recommend for my car? 69 454 bbc approx 550hp with 235/15s front and 255/15s back. I'm ready to buy new springs, shocks and leafs even new a arms if I have to. I don't want to "waste" my $$$ on mis-matched parts. I too want to drag race this car on occasion. Do I need to buy new rims and tires also?
thanks
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1969 RS Z/28<br />1969 X-22 RS/SS
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 09:44 PM
 
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Your rear spring would be dependant on your front spring rate. And all of this is really dependant on how you drive your car.

If you really enjoy stop light to stop light driving and hit up the ole drag strip every now and then, I would set it up a for just that.

If you really enjoyed rolling through the corners a little more and hit up the drag strip every now and then I would set it up a little differently. So it really comes down to what you want and what you tell me.

But it all starts with knowing what you have for a front spring.

Shocks, either KONI's or Bilsteins.

Rims, I set most of my hard core projects up with 16 inchers as they are more forgiving to daily driving. 17's arent a bad choise either, just more expensive and they are better with lighter spring rates in my opinion.....they are not as forgiving and would be better used with lighter springs. The other reason for different wheels and tires is brake fitment. But you can still put a good system in a 15 inch wheel......afterall I put a 13" system into a 16 incher, so a good 12" system in a 15 incher would do just fine. I ran 255/60/15 on a 15x8 for a number of years and was VERY satisfied with the ride quality and performance........even with 700/300 rates !!

Feed me some more info and well make sence out of all of this.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 09:59 PM
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Dennis you jerk, just kidding, no offense taken.

I didn't say I can take fast corners, I said it corners better with the slapper bars than without. With the mono leafs and no bars it had tons of body roll and was unpredictable in corners. With the slappers the body roll is much less and I can corner quite a bit faster. I do have my snubbers touching the springs. It makes too much noise otherwise and it doesn't affect my traction.

No, it in no way corners like a G machine, but it rides better, and IMO looks better. I can also drive over any speed bump with no worries. My front tires are the same height as a 235/60/15 except they don't rub. The pics on my website are with BFG's, long gone, and 15X7 wheels in the front with the wrong offset, it now has 15X6 in front.

Another thing that greatly improved my street traction and cornering was getting rid of the BFG radial TA's. They might as well make them out of ice. I'm only talking about their regular 15" tires.

Lonnie

67 Camaro [email protected], [email protected], 1.455 60ft 421sbc
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 11:52 PM
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Chicane67,
Could you tell me how you would set-up both set-ups and their pros and cons. I kind of like to do both types of driving and for now don't know which way to ?go
thanks again
Kelvin

1969 RS Z/28<br />1969 X-22 RS/SS
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 03, 11:11 AM
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Chicane67 or anyone else,
How does this set-up look? 650 front with 175 rear? I think I'm gonna buy 17" rims with a baer track front with a touring rear brake kit. Other than being $$$ , does this set-up look good? I think I like playing around corners a little more than going stop light to stop light. Comments?
thanks
Kelvin

1969 RS Z/28<br />1969 X-22 RS/SS
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