2nd gen front frame in a first gen camaro - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 02, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 76
I read an article in hot rod magazine
about a dude putting a 2nd gen frame in
a first gen camaro. I think his motor
was an Ls-1 and he had oil pan clearance
with first gen frame. If possible I need more information how i can do this or a place to get it done.

Thanking in advance
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 02, 09:19 AM
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Dallas, Texas
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That's the million dollar question. The second gen subframe has a much better suspension from a handling standpoint. I don't think anyone here has been able to take measurements on a second gen frame, although several people have talked about it.

I was reading a book with some info on the development of the second gen and it indicated that all of the suspension development was done with modified '69s. The book didn't indicate how they got everything to fit together though.
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 02, 09:32 AM
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Location: ohio
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My friend has finally torn down his 76 Camaro for some work and the subframe is sitting up against the garage wall fresh from being sandblasted. It is totally stripped of motor mounts, control arms etc. Let me know the dimensions you guys need and I'll see what I can do.

***Keep in mind though that all I would have available to me is a tape measure.***

Bret Copsey
'68 Camaro base coupe
'92 Caprice wagon
'98 Malibu
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 02, 03:26 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oxford Pa.
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What year/month was this Hotrod article?
A friend of mine dropped off a 2nd gen subframe a few weeks ago(78or79)....I just havn't had time to do any measuring yet.....at a quick glance tho.....I think the "dropdown bend" is going to be the first problem ....there will be clearance issues with the firewall.....I am just about finished up with another Guys project(side job that just won't end)...Mine IS the next to be worked on in the garage....I will repost when I get the 2nd gen frame at least sitting on jackstands underneath My 68 shell for a quick visual check....I'll say one thing now tho....it seems to be a lot heavier (weight) than the 1st gen.....
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 02, 01:22 PM
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Columbia, MO USA
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We need to know the following dimensions.

1. Wheel spud centerline from the center of the rubber motor mounts.
2. Rear frame/body mounts from wheel spud centerline.
3. Front frame/body mount from rear frame/body mount.
4. Radiator/body mount from wheel spud centerline.
5. Rear most point of S/F kick-up from wheel spud centerline.
6. Height of kick-up.
7. Disc brake or drum brake width, drum/disc to drum/disc.

The mag, I think is the December issue of HR. I tried several times and ways to get hold of the guy that did the conversion b/c the article said he was from Independence, MO. But to no avail!

I have been after this info for a while b/c I think we can really improve our cars handling by installing the second gen. cars S/F's. I have even asked the guy that found my 454 core that I made my 496 out of to get me a second gen. S/F but he hasn't come through yet. pdq67

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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 02, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 76
Hot Rod Magazine Edition: October 2001
Front cover Headline: "Junk Yard Jewel 454 Power Per Dollar"

Article name: Quarter Million Mile Nova
Owner/Suspension Modifier: Eric Wise
Location: Independence, Mo
Model: 1971 Chevy Nova
Motor: 1998 F-body LS-1
Trans. 4L60E

(Excerpts from the Article)

"1977 camaro subframe with rear of crossmember notched to clear oil pan,
body mounts repositioned, front frame horns narrowed 1/2 inch"

"Rewelded the mounts, notched the frame to clear the body and narrowed the frame horns"

(Observation from the picture in the mag)

Factory Heater Panel Removed from Firewall and replaced with 4 tube Heat-A/C bulkhead.
The car has the factory brake booster and
the wiper location in orginal location.
The radiator assembly is a stock 2nd gen camaro. Firewall to motor clearance seem to be 1.5" and passenger side frame has been notched to clear LS-1 A/C compressor.

Hope this helps!

[This message has been edited by rjrock (edited 03-07-2002).]
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 02, 02:04 PM
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Location: Columbia, MO USA
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rjrock, thats it. Sorry I got the month wrong.

I was even thinking about a road trip to visit Mr. Wise, but I could never get hold of him and both of us tried. pdq67

PS., I found this just now in my old e-mails when David Pozzi and I were looking at this.


I finally got around to figuring out how to manipulate the pic's that you sent me way back when.

It appears that the differences between the two subframes are indeed minor.

The bushing mount holes from front to rear are from the centerline of the car the long way (front to rear) is at the radiator point 18.875" & 18.625", next, the middle mount, 21" & 20.25" and last the rear mount, 16.75" & 16.875"(first numbers are for the second gen and last numbers for first gen.).

Looking at the mounts going from front to back gives, 40.875" & 38.75"(rad mount to center mount), then 31.5" & 29.875" (center mount to rear mount).

The mount heights are harder to come by because of the change in the "datum" lines, but appear to be about the same except that the middle mount appears to be "under the side of the subframe" so to say whereas the first gen's center mount is up in the air! I'm wondering if a spacer would take care of these diffences?? Or just slide a second gen. subframe under a first gen car and cut and relocate the center mount as needed???

Well anyway, it is food for thought. pdq67

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