Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Hello!
I'm new to this forum, have owned a -67 Camaro for 16 years now

I'm replacing the old monoleaf springs to Hotchkis 1.5" drop multileafs and putting new Energy Suspension bushings

- The problem is rear frame bushings. Even when the bushings are installed all the way in to the rear frame hole, the sleeve is not flush with the bushing ends. The sleeve is a good 0.15 too short.
- So, basically the rear frame hole is 0.15" too wide for the bushings and the sleeve. And since the sleeve is not flush with the bushings, the shackle causes extra stress to the bushing ends because it doesn't bottom out to the sleeve
- Another side-effect is that the shackles are not parallel since the width of the frame hole is 0.15" more than the leaf spring rear eye

Anyone else noticed this and done something about it? I'm thinking of grinding 0.075 per side of the frame hole...

I would assume this could be one of the things that can cause squealing...

Any help greatly appreciated!

Best regards,
Pasi
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 04:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Attached is a rude and crude illustration of what I mean in my previous post. Hopefully it clarifies the issue with the rear shackle frame bushing
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 04:54 AM
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

So 1st gen and 2nd gen Camaro bushings are different. The 2nd gen has a larger lip. Could you have mismatched bushings? Has your frame rails been replaced?

Kevin


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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
So 1st gen and 2nd gen Camaro bushings are different. The 2nd gen has a larger lip. Could you have mismatched bushings? Has your frame rails been replaced?
Kevin,
Appreciate the quick reply!
Both the rear spring eye bushings and the frame bushings are identical. My old ES bushings that I removed were exactly the same.
No, my frame rails or anything related to that are stock, they have not been replaced or modified.

Now that you said that 1gen and 2gen are different... I have Energy Suspension Part# 3.2135G kit...In the ES website it says it's compatible with -67 Camaro but also lists compatible models from 67 to 81 for that! So from 1gen to 2gen.

In comparison, Energy Suspension Part# 3.2137G lists only 67 to 69 as compatible. So it seems there's a ES compatibility F***up in their website...I'm going to order Part# 3.2137G first and see if that corrects the issue

Thanks,
Pasi
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Crap.
I was a bit too quick in my web searches. Energy Suspension Part# 3.2137G is for monoleaf...

It would be nice to know how much different the 1gen and 2gen rear frame bushings dimensions are...I guess ES sells one type that's "good enough" for both gens.

BR,
Pasi
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 07:19 AM
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Hey Pasi, just saw you are from Finland, cool. Good friends of mine are from Finland, we hope to join them on one of their trips back home

Measure your bushings, total length and length from inner edge (where it is supposed to fit in hole). I can compare to my stock GM ones when I get home.

Kevin


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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 08:52 AM
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Didn't the shackle kit and new bushings come with the Hotchkis leafs ?? I just installed mine last week or so. Why use ES bushings ?? I used the Hotchkis supplied bushings. No problems.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Kevin,
It's a small world right!

Here are my measurements :
- Bushing total length : About 1.48"
- Bushing length, part that goes inside the hole : 1.2"
- Sleeve length : 3"
- Leaf spring rear eye length : About 2.46"
- Framerail hole length : About 2.61"

And in a nutshell
- Bushings and sleeves are identical both rear spring eye and framerail hole
- Sleeves are perfectly flush with the bushings in the rear spring eye, but not in the framerail hole

So since the framerail hole is about 0.150" longer than the spring eye, the same size bushings end up being that much longer in the framerail hole than the spring eye
And since the sleeve is only 3" long it's not flush with the bushings in the framerail hole

DT : I used the Hotchkis supplied shackle kit and they are in fact ES bushings and identical to my old ES poly bushings. I just replaced the front spring eye bushing from stock to ES. If you still have the plastic bag that contained the bushings there's a part# (9.9506G) and that's an ES part#. It's just a rather special one, probably because Hotchkis is their customer

Best regards,
Pasi
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 17, 05:18 PM
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

OK judging by your pics here: cammm67's Library | Photobucket

You are using poly bushings. I don't have that much experience with polys.

But I pulled out some new rubber ones.

Quote:
Here are my measurements :
- Bushing total length : About 1.48"
- Bushing length, part that goes inside the hole : 1.2"
- Sleeve length : 3"
- Leaf spring rear eye length : About 2.46"
- Framerail hole length : About 2.61"
So when you put your bushings together it works like this:

total end to end 2.96" This makes sense that the sleeve is 3"
total inside 2.4" OK for spring, but too short for frame

Rubber bushings (remember there is some crush factor for them unlike polys)

total end to end 3 1/2" (1/4" to 3/8" of lip)
total inside between 2 5/8" and 2 3/4" this would fit both the frame and the spring

So I would say the poly bushings inside measurement is too short.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 17, 05:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

It seems "tonyvol" has had the same issue, the has posted with subject "Rear Shackle angle with Hotchkis Leafs" on May 13th 2012...

https://www.camaros.net/forums/16-bra...kis-leafs.html

I purchased the Hotchkis kit years and years ago so I might have the same issue, wrong type bushings

BR,
Pasi
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 17, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

OK,
Didn't get help from Hotchkis nor ES...

So, I did the hilarious solution, I whipped 2 longer bushings on a lathe and modified the shackles.

Being in the metric part of the world, it meant cutting a 20mm OD - 14mm ID tube to 3/4" OD - 9/16" ID
That solved the "bushing too short"-issue. But still the shackles were not parallel since the framerail hole is 0.15" longer
So I welded two 0.075" stainless steel plates to the shackles, to "widen" the leaf spring eye part

Not really the easiest solution but it worked great

ORIGINAL SLEEVE AND 2 NEW LONGER SLEEVES :




MODIFIED SHACKLES WITH SLEEVES :




MODIFIED SHACKLES WITH SLEEVES :

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 17, 05:17 AM
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Sounds like a fine solution! Sometime you just have to engineer a fix with what you have, nice job!

Kevin


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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 17, 07:53 AM
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

I'd say that looks great! I think most of us would've used a washer, though... Much easier.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 17, 07:54 AM
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure my shackles are cadmium in color. Perhaps they changed shackles. Nice job btw.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 17, 08:08 AM
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Re: Rear shackle bushings, sleeve issue

Looks like the original spacers would work if you flipped the shackles so the welded tabs on the inside were to the outside?
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