Saginaw Pump Differences - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 17, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Brian
 
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Saginaw Pump Differences

I am converting from manual steering to power steering. Since my motor has a long water pump, I am using 69 Camaro brackets, gearbox, and hoses. I have two different pumps. The first one might be off a Chevelle year unknown. The second one is from a 70 Camaro.

The first pump has a male union and a control valve with a slot in the end. The second has a female union and no slot in the control valve.

Here is a picture of the pumps, unions, and the valves.



What year did they switch from the male to female union? Are there advantages /disadvantages to either one? Does the slot in the end of the control valve mean anything, are they interchangeable? Do I need to worry about the output pressure of these pumps? And lastly, the one on the right the tube angles more toward the engine. Which one will fit better in a stock frame?

This is my first power steering conversion and hope someone can fill in some blanks on the pump differences.

Brian

'67 SS/RS 350, Muncie M20, Black with black interior.

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 17, 03:36 PM
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

The change to the female outlet began in 1970. Either tube orientation should work; I checked clearance between the end of the tube and frame and you should have at least 3 inches. I converted to a long water pump set up and my original brackets worked. If you are not upgrading the steering box beyond factory specs you should have no issues with pressure, assuming the control valves have not been modified. One advantage of using the male fitting is the availability of the correct hose.

Good luck with the conversion.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 17, 09:16 AM
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

The reservoirs can be swapped if needed.
The pump pressure valve and outlets need to stay paired. I hear you have trouble if you use the flat ended pressure valve with the early outlet. They can be swapped as pairs.

If you use the female outlet, use a pressure hose for a 1973 or 4 Nova. It has the same subframe as first gen Camaro and used the female outlet fitting in those years.
Check your pump shaft type, early used a nut and keyway, later used a press on pulley. They don't interchange.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 17, 10:29 AM
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

Dave...

You're the expert on steering & brakes lol. Can you explain to me why some header guys will say that their headers will work with "ordinary" oem power steering boxes but not with a quick steering box? Is it something to do with the pitman arm?

I ask bc I'm switching from a oem power steering box to a Jeep Grand Cherokee box.

Mike

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 17, 01:32 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

I'm certainly no expert, but I need my 10th post to activate some site features.

I installed IROC box (Cardone 27-6550) just yesterday. The GEN III box is just a bit wider than the original box and is now real close to the header. I didn't take measurements before, but I would estimate maybe 1/8" closer to the header. Take a look at your clearance now and it you can't afford an additional 1/8" look for alternatives.

FWIW, Mike.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 17, 08:48 PM
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

I've seen no difference in the boxes that you would pick up visually. The old 1969 "fast ratio" PS boxes used the same casting as the standard boxes so there is no difference there.
However the 80's IROC boxes are a later casting and it's possible there is a tiny difference like 1/8".
Attached are two photos I did in ghost view of std and power boxes.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 17, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

Thank you Mike and David for your replies. I've also done some more research on my own and discovered a couple things.

The union, Item number 1 in the picture below, controls the flow of the pump. There are some articles out there explaining how to drill the orifice out to give more flow. There are some aftermarket ones available, but mostly to reduce flow for a rack and pinion. The stock one should put out around 2.5 to 3 gpm.

The flow control valve, Item 21 in the picture below, controls the output pressure of the pump. I've only found one aftermarket valve, but the original can be modified to change the pressure. The output pressure can be tested with a pressure guage plumbed inline on the pressure hose. The stock one should put out around 900 to 1200 psi.


Brian

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 17, 10:04 AM
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

If upgrading to a fast ratio box, you need more pressure and flow. Many 67-69 GM pumps ran 800 to 900 psi and used an outlet fitting "union" with skinny restriction, the hole size is .128" so not much flow. Common mod is to drill the restriction to .140" and remove a washer from under the "nut" on the flow valve. Target pressure is 1200 psi, one shim removed may only up pressure 100 psi or so.

Late pumps in the 90's & up do not come with washers. Loctite is on the threads and the "nut" is turned in to a specific height, it is not bottomed out on anything. If you unscrew it without noticing where it is, then install it full tight, pressure is going to be way too high.
Pickup and large car pumps are set at 1400 psi.

Here's my info page: FIRST GEN SUSPENSION

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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Last edited by davidpozzi; Apr 7th, 17 at 10:22 AM.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 17, 07:47 PM
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

Nothing to add... but if someone has a spare one of the male unions as pictured above, I would like to purchase it from you.

Lynn
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 17, 06:53 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Saginaw Pump Differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpozzi View Post
If upgrading to a fast ratio box, you need more pressure and flow. Many 67-69 GM pumps ran 800 to 900 psi and used an outlet fitting "union" with skinny restriction, the hole size is .128" so not much flow. Common mod is to drill the restriction to .140" and remove a washer from under the "nut" on the flow valve. Target pressure is 1200 psi, one shim removed may only up pressure 100 psi or so.

Late pumps in the 90's & up do not come with washers. Loctite is on the threads and the "nut" is turned in to a specific height, it is not bottomed out on anything. If you unscrew it without noticing where it is, then install it full tight, pressure is going to be way too high.
Pickup and large car pumps are set at 1400 psi.

Here's my info page: FIRST GEN SUSPENSION
Dave... Can a later model pump be used in a Gen1 conversion to quick steering? Aside from the pump, am I correct to think that those converting from manual to quick power steering using a more modern PS box need to use a specific steering arm... either a OEM PS arm or a similar aftermarket arm? Something to do with the length of the arm?

'69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, 030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed, Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition
CompCams XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads, PYPES Full 3" SS Exhaust, Hooker Comp Headers, Wilwood Calipers/MC
JGC Steering Box, Helix Uppers/Lowers, ProForged BJs, SpeedHut Gauges, MOMO Steering Wheel, Budnik 17" Wheels
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