Alignment Spec's needed - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old May 9th, 17, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Jeff
 
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Alignment Spec's needed

I just installed BMR Lowering Spring on my 68, dropping the front 2 inches. I want to get a frontend alignment done to get back some of the Caster that I lost by dropping. Does anyone have knowledge of any spec's I can give the Alignment Shop for setting up. Or any alignment spec's. Thanks
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old May 9th, 17, 02:02 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Alignment Spec's needed

These specs are from member Brian Lewis, so credit him for the info. I provided these specs to my alignment shop and they were able to dial them in. My car steers great (thanks Brian).

ALIGNMENT SPECS
Guldstrand recommends the following specs for a "touring car":
Caster: 3 - 4 degrees positive (+) PS = more, manual steer less.
Camber: 1/4 to 1/2 degrees negative (-)
Toe-in: 0 - 1/8 inch
NOTES : Dial in as much positive caster as possible as long as both sides
are equal
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old May 9th, 17, 02:48 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Alignment Spec's needed

Old Dad's 67 alignment specs look pretty good.
Do you have any other front end modifications that would also influence your alignment?
Your alignment shop will reach a point where they can only add so much caster before they also start to add more negative camber at the same time.
Things like offset upper control arm shafts might get you a couple more degrees of added caster... and even better would be tubular upper control arms with additional caster built into the arms.

With a stock ride height, I was only able to get about 3 degrees positive caster out of my stock control arms and maintain a 1/2 degree negative camber. If I tried to add more then 3 degrees of positive caster, I also added more negative camber (which I did not want), I installed some GW upper control arms and was able to set my alignment at 5 1/2 degrees positive caster on the drivers side, and 6 degrees positive caster on the passenger side - while maintaining a 1/2 degree negative camber on both sides. Note: It may help to add 1/2 more positive caster on the passenger side to help keep the car from drifting due to road crown.

As Old Dad's 67 stated, the more positive caster you can get... the better. Additional positive caster is going to help with better high speed stability and also better steering wheel return to center after a turn.

Mike
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old May 17th, 17, 03:03 PM
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J.T.
 
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Talking Re: Alignment Spec's needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dad's 67 View Post
These specs are from member Brian Lewis, so credit him for the info. I provided these specs to my alignment shop and they were able to dial them in. My car steers great (thanks Brian).

ALIGNMENT SPECS
Guldstrand recommends the following specs for a "touring car":
Caster: 3 - 4 degrees positive (+) PS = more, manual steer less.
Camber: 1/4 to 1/2 degrees negative (-)
Toe-in: 0 - 1/8 inch
NOTES : Dial in as much positive caster as possible as long as both sides
are equal
Thanks! this is just what I was looking for
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old May 27th, 17, 09:33 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Alignment Spec's needed

We're in the middle of finishing a major front-end do-over. Converted from drums to CCP slotted rotors, Wilwood calipers, TuffStuff booster, Wilwood MC & proportional valve, ProForged BJs, tie Rod ends & adjusters, Helix upper/lower control arms... and the upper BJs are the "tall" ones. Going to set up an alignment date once everything's done. Would the same specs apply my street cruiser?

ALIGNMENT SPECS
Guldstrand recommends the following specs for a "touring car":
Caster: 3 - 4 degrees positive (+) PS = more, manual steer less.
Camber: 1/4 to 1/2 degrees negative (-)
Toe-in: 0 - 1/8 inch
NOTES : Dial in as much positive caster as possible as long as both sides
are equal

'69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, 030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed, Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition
CompCams XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads, PYPES Full 3" SS Exhaust, Hooker Comp Headers, Wilwood Calipers/MC
JGC Steering Box, Helix Uppers/Lowers, ProForged BJs, SpeedHut Gauges, MOMO Steering Wheel, Budnik 17" Wheels
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old May 27th, 17, 10:23 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Alignment Spec's needed

The Helix control arms you installed look just like all the others that are advertised with increased caster built into the arms. You were also smart with replacing the ball joints that were included with the arms to the taller proforged units. That is exactly what i did when I installed my GW upper tubular control arms.

Below are the specs I would recommend since you have the control arms that can handle them.

Caster: 5 degrees positive (+) Drivers side / 5 1/2* degrees positive (+) Passenger's side.
*1/2 more positive caster on the passenger side to help keep the car from drifting due to road crown.
Camber: 1/4 to 1/2 degrees negative (-) Both Sides
Toe-in: 0 - 1/8 inch Total

As I mentioned earlier in this thread... Additional positive caster is going to help with better high speed stability and also better steering wheel return to center after a turn.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old May 29th, 17, 07:03 AM
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Mike
 
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Re: Alignment Spec's needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolchevy View Post
The Helix control arms you installed look just like all the others that are advertised with increased caster built into the arms. You were also smart with replacing the ball joints that were included with the arms to the taller proforged units. That is exactly what i did when I installed my GW upper tubular control arms.

Below are the specs I would recommend since you have the control arms that can handle them.

Caster: 5 degrees positive (+) Drivers side / 5 1/2* degrees positive (+) Passenger's side.
*1/2 more positive caster on the passenger side to help keep the car from drifting due to road crown.
Camber: 1/4 to 1/2 degrees negative (-) Both Sides
Toe-in: 0 - 1/8 inch Total

As I mentioned earlier in this thread... Additional positive caster is going to help with better high speed stability and also better steering wheel return to center after a turn.
Thanks Mike... I'll print that out and take it with me when I go get the alignment done. Didn't mention it above, but I do have power steering and replaced the original PS box with a '96 JGC box as part of this front-end makeover. I haven't done the pressure mod David suggests, want to see what I've got as is. Any different settings for power steering?

'69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, 030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed, Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition
CompCams XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads, PYPES Full 3" SS Exhaust, Hooker Comp Headers, Wilwood Calipers/MC
JGC Steering Box, Helix Uppers/Lowers, ProForged BJs, SpeedHut Gauges, MOMO Steering Wheel, Budnik 17" Wheels
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old May 29th, 17, 08:24 AM
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Mike
 
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Re: Alignment Spec's needed

No changes to the specs provided for power steering.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 17, 12:19 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Alignment Spec's needed

It took almost forever, but I'm pretty much done with the front end of this car for 2017 at least from a mechanical point of view. Installed the following:

Wilwood Master Cylinder
Wilwood proportioning valve
Wilwood calipers
CPP slotted rotors
New bearings
'96 JGC Quick Steering Box
Helix upper and lower control arms
Tuff Stuff 8" dual booster
ProForged tall upper ball joints
ProForged lower ball joints
ProForged tie rod ends and sleeves
Hooker Competition headers (with "dent")

Car sat too low with Hotchkis 2" drop springs, and the tubular arms, so we used 3/4" Global West coil spacers to get it back to where I wanted it. I had hoped it would've all gone together quickly, but I got the wrong parts a couple of times and the global west spacers wound up giving me back an inch and a half in height. Car finally came off the lift last Friday.

So I did the alignment today. Same guy has been doing my alignments for 30 years in an alignment specialty shop here in Springfield (Steve's Alignment). The owner noted that each car is unique when you start mixing and matching parts, but it feels great... steering wheel does try to return to center, no drifting in lanes... tracks beautifully.

Caster: 4-1/2 degrees positive (+) Drivers side / 5 degrees positive (+) Passenger's side.
Camber: LF - 3/8 degrees negative (-) RF -5/8 degrees negative
Toe-in: 0 - 1/8 inch Total

The only item I _might_ add would be a beefier sway bar. Dave suggested the Helwig and thats where I might go (and add the rear as well). Down the road, I might switch to coil-overs up front, but thats deep on the list right now.

'69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, 030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed, Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition
CompCams XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads, PYPES Full 3" SS Exhaust, Hooker Comp Headers, Wilwood Calipers/MC
JGC Steering Box, Helix Uppers/Lowers, ProForged BJs, SpeedHut Gauges, MOMO Steering Wheel, Budnik 17" Wheels
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 17, 02:51 PM
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Re: Alignment Spec's needed

The Hellwig hollow bar has a wall thickness of .188", the Hotchkis front bar is .156". The Hellwig bar will be significantly stiffer. If you don't also add the Hellwig rear bar, the car will understeer, - a lot. The Hellwig bars are generally designed to work with stock spring rates front and rear, so they add quite a bit of roll stiffness since the stock spring rates will be half of what a Hotchkis or other set would be. The Hellwig solid front bar 1" dia is close to the Hotchkis 1 1/8" hollow bar. I'd have to double check how much, it's probably a little softer.
If your rear tires are wider than front, then that increases the need for a rear sway bar. Many guys run no rear bar, which works if you aren't picky about handling and don't push your car much when you drive. The extra understeer limits cornering speed, but it's probably safer for inexperienced drivers.

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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67 RS 327 original owner. 1965 Lola T-70
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