Rear spring suggestions - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old May 20th, 17, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
Probationer
Jason
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: KS
Posts: 4
Rear spring suggestions

I dont know anything about what springs are currently on the car. My father and I restored this car years ago infact completed it about 17 years ago. Well my father passed and I now have the car. I have been a long time Buick GN owner and this is my first older car. The rear leaf springs are a 5 leaf. Looks like about a 3 in shackle in the rear. The car just sits too low. He has air shocks on the back to gain clearance. I dont want to do that. I want the car to have the correct ride height. I measure 24.5 in to top of the wheel opening. I am open to suggestions. Ideas. So I have looked at the caltrac split monos. Then when I search i am getting confused when I see 2.5 drop only becuase i do not know what my dad put under the car. Could they be a 2.5 drop? If so then that doesnt work. I appreciate input here. I have looked at the hotchkis and Detroit speed. Id like to get it up an 1in to start. I guess if i over shoot it i can block it to bring it back down. Let me know and thank you in advance. This is my first post.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20170520_103644.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	59.7 KB
ID:	183945   Click image for larger version

Name:	20170520_101116.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	65.2 KB
ID:	183953  
Buttonfly is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old May 20th, 17, 06:21 PM
Senior Tech
Mike
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: So Cal
Posts: 304
Garage
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Welcome Jason. I can't help you with your question, but what a nice looking car! Dad must have been a cool guy.

I'm sure others will help you with your questions.

My condolences to you and your family.

Mike
Old Dad's 67 is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old May 20th, 17, 07:32 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Don
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 2 Dog Town in West Texas
Posts: 11,154
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Jason, you didn't mention tire size etc, but your car sits like my z, and it has 5 leafs. I run 17" rear 255 x 50 . You have a nice stance there.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
zdld17 is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old May 21st, 17, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
Probationer
Jason
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: KS
Posts: 4
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dad's 67 View Post
Welcome Jason. I can't help you with your question, but what a nice looking car! Dad must have been a cool guy.

I'm sure others will help you with your questions.

My condolences to you and your family.

Mike
I appreciate that thank you. I actually bought the car when i was 14. We restored it together which got me interested. Hell it is in my shop at the dealership I work. He passed a couple of years ago but I have been working out bugs. I swapped in a mild 383 and a 2004r with 9.5 in 2800 converter from my grand national. That made it so streetable now, but i have to straighten out the suspension now. Just a touch more functional. I plan on the 3rd gen gear box swap and a 4 wheel disc brake conversion.

Thanks again. I love the sight
Buttonfly is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old May 21st, 17, 08:30 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Mike
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: New England/Western Mass
Posts: 685
Garage
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Jason... you've got a beautiful car and I'm not sure I'd mess too much with the stance unless it's causing problems. My car measures 24.750 from the ground to the molding (see pix) and I'm running 255/60R15's on 8" wheels. I get lots of positive comments on the stance. It's lowered 2" in the front and the back is simply monoleaf. Someday I may re-spring but I won't go more than 1/2" higher as I think the '69's look best when the top of the tread is no more than flush with the molding... never a bigger gap like a 67-68 with round openings.





BFG says my rear tire measures 27.05" in diameter, and regardless of 15-16-17 inch wheels I think you more or less want to stick with a 27" tall tire, maybe no more than 28" if you're running stock wheel tubs/suspension. Other than LeMans Blue red is my favorite color... your car is gorgeous!

'69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, 030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed, Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition
CompCams XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads, PYPES Full 3" SS Exhaust, Hooker Comp Headers, Wilwood Calipers/MC
JGC Steering Box, Helix Uppers/Lowers, ProForged BJs, SpeedHut Gauges, MOMO Steering Wheel, Budnik 17" Wheels
57vette is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old May 21st, 17, 08:32 AM
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 4,672
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Your father could have purchased a two inch drop leaf spring, but unless he actually replaced the springs I would imagine what you have now is the original spring with forty eight years of sagging.

Problem with replacing the springs is found in the front spring pocket. The three bolts that retain the pocket where screwed into nuts that where held in place with a very thin metal cage that has long since rusted away. This allows the nuts to spin when you try and remove the front spring pocket.

The only way to get them off is to cut a whole in your car to gain access to the nuts and then reweld in a repair patch panel and do the usual body work (while you have the welder out burn those nuts into the sheet metal to prevent there spinning in the future and coat everything inside with some zinc rich primer).

Big Dave
Larger Dave is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old May 21st, 17, 12:35 PM
Apprentice
Brad
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 25
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larger Dave View Post
Your father could have purchased a two inch drop leaf spring, but unless he actually replaced the springs I would imagine what you have now is the original spring with forty eight years of sagging.

Problem with replacing the springs is found in the front spring pocket. The three bolts that retain the pocket where screwed into nuts that where held in place with a very thin metal cage that has long since rusted away. This allows the nuts to spin when you try and remove the front spring pocket.

The only way to get them off is to cut a whole in your car to gain access to the nuts and then reweld in a repair patch panel and do the usual body work (while you have the welder out burn those nuts into the sheet metal to prevent there spinning in the future and coat everything inside with some zinc rich primer).

Big Dave
Is going through the sheet metal really the only solution? I just started a leaf spring replacement project of my own and am far enough along to know that the bolts are spinning. I thought I had read you could just cut the heads off the bolts and then, I was assuming, you'd have access to the nuts and the mounting bracket once the pocket was off.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Brad Keuning is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old May 21st, 17, 04:05 PM
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 4,672
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Cutting off the head of the bolt releases the front spring mounting pocket, but the old bolt is still there, and the nut is fully enclosed inside the the frame sill, where it is unaccessible.

I use a hole saw so that I have a part that can be welded back in place. Other cut them out with a plasma torch, but I am afraid of burning wires or setting the car on fire.

I am sure you can find a you tube video covering the procedure as most Camaros and Novas have this as an issue when changing the leaf springs.

Big Dave
Larger Dave is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old May 21st, 17, 04:19 PM
Senior Tech
George
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 407
Re: Rear spring suggestions

I heated the bolts, then soaked in penetrating oil. Then bent up an old wrench, and was able to get the spring pocket off without cutting holes in the body, but it's a long / slow process, requiring lots of patience. '67 model year, FWIW
67 RS Ragtop is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 17, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
Probationer
Jason
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: KS
Posts: 4
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17 View Post
Jason, you didn't mention tire size etc, but your car sits like my z, and it has 5 leafs. I run 17" rear 255 x 50 . You have a nice stance there.
I am running the same size.
Buttonfly is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 17, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
Probationer
Jason
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: KS
Posts: 4
Re: Rear spring suggestions

57 vette....

Thank you for the pics. I have clearance problems with the headers under the car. I also pic up rubbing fromt the top of the tire to the wheel well. So that is what I want to correct. The air shocks correct the issue but I want it to be turn key. I dont wanr tot have to adjust shocks to drive the car. Your car is beautiful BTW. Thank you again
Buttonfly is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 17, 06:56 AM
Senior Tech
mike
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 2,288
Re: Rear spring suggestions

I have one of those in car air pumps that has a gauge and switch. When I need more clearance I pump them up while cruising I let them down.https://www.amazon.com/LIFT-25804-Ai.../dp/B000CFO05E It is great when someone is in the back seat.
bigblockragtop is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 17, 07:17 AM
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 4,672
Re: Rear spring suggestions

I just realized that a 1969 has a different wheel well than the 1967 and '68; it is closer to the enclosed (faux fender skirt) wheel well of the Nova. I took a saber saw and cut off the outer lip on the back to obtain an opening that swallowed a 14 inch wide Firestone slick.





Big Dave
Larger Dave is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old May 25th, 17, 06:50 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Mike
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: New England/Western Mass
Posts: 685
Garage
Re: Rear spring suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttonfly View Post
57 vette....

Thank you for the pics. I have clearance problems with the headers under the car. I also pic up rubbing fromt the top of the tire to the wheel well. So that is what I want to correct. The air shocks correct the issue but I want it to be turn key. I dont wanr tot have to adjust shocks to drive the car. Your car is beautiful BTW. Thank you again
Thanks for the props Jason. Ok... header flange clearance usually means the car is sitting too low, but some long tubes sit lower than others as well. Some companies also weld their flanges so one hole is at 6 o'clock which stinks. I like the headers that have a revolving flange... or better yet switch to a V-band which is the absolute best connection for headers.

A simple front-end height fix might be to get a set of Global West 1/2" or 3/4" aluminum foil spring spacers. A 1/2" spacer placed in the LCA pocket will give you a 1" increase in height, 3/4" will give you 1-1/2" lift. Play with a floor jack under the center of the front end, measure at rest, then jack it up to show which you need to get where you want too go. Lots of spacers are available, just use the metal ones rather than crushable silicon rubber ones. And of course, if you change the height, you should have your front end alignment checked as the
Camber might be off a bit.

Mike

'69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, 030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed, Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition
CompCams XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads, PYPES Full 3" SS Exhaust, Hooker Comp Headers, Wilwood Calipers/MC
JGC Steering Box, Helix Uppers/Lowers, ProForged BJs, SpeedHut Gauges, MOMO Steering Wheel, Budnik 17" Wheels

Last edited by 57vette; May 25th, 17 at 07:07 AM.
57vette is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old May 25th, 17, 07:35 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Mike
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: New England/Western Mass
Posts: 685
Garage
Re: Rear spring suggestions

LOL... Ran out of edit time (really wish it was an hour or two). On the rear, if you're having rub problems, as noted earlier, tire/wheel width, backspacing, and tire diameter can play havoc on these cars, especially with stock wheel wells. I haven't done it myself, but have talked to Mike (IIRC) at Easton Detroit Spring. He told me that they can "build" a spring pack that will get your car exactly where you want it ride height wise. He can build a 3-leaf pack that fits/replaces a monoleaf/monoleaf perch and arch the leafs according to your spec. Likewise, he can build a multi leaf for cars/rears that were multi-leaf and vary the height, vary the spring rate and whatever.

Mike told me that there should be a certain range of height from the top of the axle tube to the curve of the "frame" so I built a wooden V-block (dimensioned in pix below) notched to fit the axle, and rounded at the top to check my height versus factory fresh. My monoleafs have sagged but are still serviceable.





If you use this method, make sure you put a level on the centerline of the block, and duct tape it to the axle to keep it there. While lying under the car with it frame-jacked up a few inches, have a friend slowly release the jack somit just touches the block. That's your approximate factory ride height. If the block is pushed aside so the frame comes down... you'll also see the amount of lowering/sag you're dealing with.

'69 LeMans Blue Coupe, White Interior, 030" over 454, Super T10 4-Speed, Holley 4150, Pertronix Ignition
CompCams XS274S, 781 Oval Port Heads, PYPES Full 3" SS Exhaust, Hooker Comp Headers, Wilwood Calipers/MC
JGC Steering Box, Helix Uppers/Lowers, ProForged BJs, SpeedHut Gauges, MOMO Steering Wheel, Budnik 17" Wheels
57vette is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome