Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 17, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

So I have a 69 RS/SS 396 that drove terribly. After a little research I found out about Proforged tall ball joints, tall Tyrod ends and offset control arm shafts. Along with new upper and lower control arm bushings,new front springs and KYBís . So Iíve got it mostly together and Iím not exactly sure which direction the offsets go?..Anyone??? Iíve also noticed that the lower control arm is about 3/32Ē from the front discs??? This info was from an article from David Possi of Possi Racing on a Proforged website. Anyone else here experienced any of this or have completed this same procedure and had it to be successful.?? Also Iíve changed the 335-60/15ís in the front to 225-60/15ís Iím not planning on racing this but Iíd like it to drive nicer...

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 17, 06:51 PM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

It looks like you have those offset shafts installed wrong. They should move the control arm mounts toward the engine which adds negative camber.

Don
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 06:17 AM Thread Starter
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Cool Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

Yes , I agree they do look backwards. I feel stupid for posting those picís . The way I placed them on seems like it should have sat flush against the frame mount I have experienced a lot of parts were missed matched on this car from day one and wasnít sure if I had come across another firebird part that didnít comply with camaro parts. Anyway, Iím gonna change it around today after work and see how it all aligns. Iím guessing there arenít a lot of you that have done the taller balljoints and all that. I was thinking Iíd have more responses. Or It was stupid to ask if those were on wrong and I appear to be an idiot... a question is a question and shouldnít be afraid to ask. Youíll never stop learning. Thanks
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 07:09 AM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

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Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
It looks like you have those offset shafts installed wrong. They should move the control arm mounts toward the engine which adds negative camber.

Don
I think you have that wrong, but you can install them both ways depending on what your trying to achieve
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 09:21 AM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

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Originally Posted by chicoman View Post
I think you have that wrong, but you can install them both ways depending on what your trying to achieve
Fixing Camber Alignment problems on Chevelle, GTO's Old Cutlass, Buick GS, and other A-Bodies - YouTube
Agreed but he is trying to improve handling which means increased negative camber imho. Why would he want to add positive camber to improve handling? Installing them the way I suggested will also allow him to add enough shims to get some decent caster to improve handling.

He is not targeting factory alignment specs.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 09:58 AM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

As has been mentioned the offset cross-shaft on the upper control arms is trying to compensate for too much positive camber from the factory. There isn't a lot of meat on that shaft (without breaking off on the first pot hole you would meet) to match the Gulstrand mod; that no one does any more, since tubular control arms bring the top ball joint in (more negative camber) with shorter shafts, while the bend at the end does the same as the taller ball joint.

I doubt if anyone driving on the street would have ever learned about this issue if not for TransAm racing.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 10:08 AM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

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Originally Posted by Larger Dave View Post
As has been mentioned the offset cross-shaft on the upper control arms is trying to compensate for too much positive camber from the factory. There isn't a lot of meat on that shaft (without breaking off on the first pot hole you would meet) to match the Gulstrand mod; that no one does any more, since tubular control arms bring the top ball joint in (more negative camber) with shorter shafts, while the bend at the end does the same as the taller ball joint.

I doubt if anyone driving on the street would have ever learned about this issue if not for TransAm racing.

Big Dave
Some of the pro-touring guys still using the Guldstrand mod.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 10:22 AM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

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Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
Some of the pro-touring guys still using the Guldstrand mod.

Don
I did the Guldstrand Mod & Proforged tall balljoints and tall tie rod ends plus the offset control arm shafts. Car handles great. I believe I installed my offset control arms like pictured above but this evening I can check.


https://www.camaros.net/forums/16-bra...gle-wedge.html

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 10:43 AM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

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Originally Posted by Andrew69 View Post
I did the Guldstrand Mod & Proforged tall balljoints and tall tie rod ends plus the offset control arm shafts. Car handles great. I believe I installed my offset control arms like pictured above but this evening I can check.


https://www.camaros.net/forums/16-bra...gle-wedge.html
You installed them to add positive camber? What were your alignment specs? Please post a pic. Thanks.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

I donít really have specís. I was gonna install the items I mentioned then get it as close as I could and take it to a guy I know with a shop and says he knows how to do alignments. When I told him what I was planning he gave me hell and said heíd never heard of this and told me not to mess with it. I am mechanically inclined and have done a few restorations and all that. So Imspoke to a guy today that has done these mods and told me to bring it to him. He suggested the guldstrand mod. and said it works with the tall ball joints and all. So is the guldstrand mod making a template from the website, bolting it on, drilling out the new holes, removing the template and installing the offset control arm shafts? My concern is the lower control arm is nearly rubbing the front discs on both side. Iím not sure why. Iím going out to the garage now.. I appreciate all the comments and all the suggestions.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 12:25 PM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

Do you by chance have drop spindles on that car? I question that because of the interference you mention.


It is a beautiful car by the way.

My alignment specs:

L & R
Camber -.4 -.5
Caster 4.4 4.5
Toe in 1/16"

DYI Alignment here https://www.camaros.net/forums/16-bra...alignment.html

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

Well after looking it over again Iím guessing I shouldnít have done the offsets. These just wonít work. Proforged says these are the right ones and they said to add negative camber - A side facing the engine, which is how I have it but thereís 3/16Ē space from the frame and they wont sit flush . B side facing the engine to add positive camber.?? Iím lost in what I should do.... should I disassemble it again put the old shaft and new bushings again. Iíll attach a photo to show you.... canít attach one to this??
?

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

I donít think so. Iíve owned it for 2 yrs. Iíve done a lot of work on it. Iím not sure how to measure to see if they are drop spindles.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 02:48 PM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

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Originally Posted by 69CamarofC View Post
Well after looking it over again Iím guessing I shouldnít have done the offsets. These just wonít work. Proforged says these are the right ones and they said to add negative camber - A side facing the engine, which is how I have it but thereís 3/16Ē space from the frame and they wont sit flush . B side facing the engine to add positive camber.?? Iím lost in what I should do.... should I disassemble it again put the old shaft and new bushings again. Iíll attach a photo to show you.... canít attach one to this??
?
Add some alignment shims. The shafts are not supposed to sit flush. Once the car is aligned the shims will take up the gap.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 17, 05:18 PM
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Re: Proforged tall balljoints and offset control arm shafts

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Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
Add some alignment shims. The shafts are not supposed to sit flush. Once the car is aligned the shims will take up the gap.

Don
I think your shafts are mounted correctly. What is in the way? A little grinding in order? Don is correct in that spacers may fill the gap.
Photos of mine with spacers.
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