Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Is anyone using the 6320 Moog front coil springs? If so, did you need to change to the offset shafts to get the alignment right? I talked to Moog and they recommended it, but I don't really know much about it. Also, did anyone use upper and lower frame insulators? It seems like this would just raise your front end. Are the insulators necessary? Any help is welcome. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 03:34 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Offset shafts are used to compensate for frame sag when trying to align to factory alignment specs. There are better specs to use, refer to Pozziracing.com for specs. You shouldnít use the offset shafts unless it is determined that they are needed.

Spring insulators are not needed imho.

Don

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Thanks, Don. I will check out that website. I am rebuilding the entire front end. So, I am replacing upper control arm shafts and Moog offers both. I am using the original control arms and rubber bushings, but I wasn't sure what to use for the shafts. Thanks, again.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 05:22 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlnapper View Post
Is anyone using the 6320 Moog front coil springs? If so, did you need to change to the offset shafts to get the alignment right? I talked to Moog and they recommended it, but I don't really know much about it. Also, did anyone use upper and lower frame insulators? It seems like this would just raise your front end. Are the insulators necessary? Any help is welcome. Thanks in advance.
Personally I would go with the offset shafts, they allow more adjustability and will not hurt anything.

Thanks,

Jeff


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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 05:44 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Offset shafts would be the safe bet, since you are replacing the shafts anyway. If you do not need the offset, most offset shafts can be installed with no offset
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 06:06 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Offset shafts can result it too much positive camber if used when not needed. They are a tool to correct sagging frames to get to factory alignment specs....

Positive camber is not what you want....

The offset shafts I have used did not have an installation option with no offset. In fact I purposely installed them reversed to get more negative camber....

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

It may not matter, but I am working on a 69 Camaro, which I neglected to mention. And I am rebuilding the the entire suspension, so I am assuming I will not have any suspension sags.

Jeff and Keith, thanks for the reply.

Don,
You seem to confirm my thoughts, that suspension sag is caused by worn out suspension components. And since I am rebuilding the entire front end, I should not have a sag.

Thanks again, I appreciate the advise.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 06:27 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlnapper View Post
It may not matter, but I am working on a 69 Camaro, which I neglected to mention. And I am rebuilding the the entire suspension, so I am assuming I will not have any suspension sags.

Jeff and Keith, thanks for the reply.

Don,
You seem to confirm my thoughts, that suspension sag is caused by worn out suspension components. And since I am rebuilding the entire front end, I should not have a sag.

Thanks again, I appreciate the advise.
Mike, some frames do sag and do sometimes need offset arms. The point is that you use them when the need has been proven through an inability to align the car. At least this is my experience.

Don
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 18, 06:39 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Excellent discussion about offset shafts here:


Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Don, thanks for the reply and the video. The video seems to suggest anytime you rebuild the front end you should consider using the offset shafts; unless I misunderstand. That is possible.

But you wrote: "Mike, some frames do sag and do sometimes need offset arms. The point is that you use them when the need has been proven through an inability to align the car. At least this is my experience." I am sure you have more experience than I do, so it seems like you may be suggesting that I wait to see if the alignment is off before using the offset shafts.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 05:18 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlnapper View Post
Don, thanks for the reply and the video. The video seems to suggest anytime you rebuild the front end you should consider using the offset shafts; unless I misunderstand. That is possible.

But you wrote: "Mike, some frames do sag and do sometimes need offset arms. The point is that you use them when the need has been proven through an inability to align the car. At least this is my experience." I am sure you have more experience than I do, so it seems like you may be suggesting that I wait to see if the alignment is off before using the offset shafts.
Thatís right, use offset arms only if needed, especially if you are targeting negative camber versus factory positive camber. At least this is my opinion.

There are many ways to get this done. First step is to establish what specs you are targeting...

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 18, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Don,

Finally getting back to you. Thanks for the info. I looked at the Pozzi Racing site. Lots of good info there. It looks like how you plan to drive the car as to the castor and camber settings you will use. The car seems to have the original suspension components. I was originally considering offset shafts because there were 3/4 inch of shims in the upper control arms. It looks like the lower control arm bushing have been replaced. Probably the upper, but not sure, the upper ball joint are still riveted in and the springs have the factory tags on them. I did not check the frame to see if it was bent or not. I plan on occasional 'cruzin', not planning on racing it or auto cross, etc. (Getting too old for that stuff, LOL) Thanks again. If you opinion is still the same, I guess i will go back to stock shafts.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 18, 06:00 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlnapper View Post
Don,

Finally getting back to you. Thanks for the info. I looked at the Pozzi Racing site. Lots of good info there. It looks like how you plan to drive the car as to the castor and camber settings you will use. The car seems to have the original suspension components. I was originally considering offset shafts because there were 3/4 inch of shims in the upper control arms. It looks like the lower control arm bushing have been replaced. Probably the upper, but not sure, the upper ball joint are still riveted in and the springs have the factory tags on them. I did not check the frame to see if it was bent or not. I plan on occasional 'cruzin', not planning on racing it or auto cross, etc. (Getting too old for that stuff, LOL) Thanks again. If you opinion is still the same, I guess i will go back to stock shafts.
I honestly donít think you will need them, especially if you target a little negative camber.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 18, 06:37 PM
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

I used the offset control arm and they worked well for me. I have almost 5 degrees of caster with stock control arms

https://www.camaros.net/forums/16-bra...alignment.html

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 18, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Should Upper Offset Control Arm Shafts be used

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
I honestly donít think you will need them, especially if you target a little negative camber.

Don
Thanks, Don. Looks like I may want a little Negative Camber.
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