Rear disc brake conversion: TRS (Caddy), SSBC (T-Bird), Wilwood or ? - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 18, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Stanford
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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Rear disc brake conversion: TRS (Caddy), SSBC (T-Bird), Wilwood or ?

Welcoming your wisdom, experiences & ideas for "reversible" rear-disc upgrade on our '69 Z/28 which we've taken a few reversible liberties with restoration-wise, including Hotchkis springs, Addco swaybars, Fox double-adjustable dampers, Tremec TKO600 5-speed and .640" 253/259 solid roller LT1 with Eagle reciprocating & AFR 210s. The DZ and M20 are tucked away in storage. We take this car for spirited drives on early weekend mornings, and all deviations from original are bolt-in/remove reversible in case the future owner wants to bring the car back to stock. Although we have 17" CCWs for decent handling, I want to retain the ability to drive our 15" Rally wheels sometimes (incl bolting on some 15" drag radials).Thus, we don't want to permanently alter the rear end.

Reasons for the upgrade vs. stock drums with semi-metallic shoes are
(1) May do some track day / DEs next year and figure some non-outrageous 11x1 discs beat the drums' performance/safety window,
(2) I prefer working on discs over drums,
(3) Having 11" discs front/rear seems more "finished" to me / more aesthetically pleasing
(4) Reasonable tradeoff of going F/R 11s with reliable 1-caliper designs for far less money (and performance, clamping force) than exotic JL8 4-piston setup.

That leaves me with the following options which I welcome inputs on plus extra ideas we may have missed somewhere:

The Right Stuff AFXRD05 kit which uses the calipers from T/A WS6, Caddy Seville/Eldo/etc., D152 pads and solid 11x1" rotors, adjusts calipers via parking brake cycling.
Economical ($370-ish) at first blush, but extra costs based on some reviews include...
Requires buying new pads since many reviews had fitment issues with shipped pads that were resolved by installing newer thinner pads) and likely getting their shortened hard-line kit for the axle.
Some installers have noted issues on backing-plate-to-bracket needing to be ground.
Requires you to adjust e-brake then bleed with caliper unbolted & tilted to put bleeder at utmost top.
Increase in track width (due to rotors being thicker than drums) btwn 1/8 to 1/4 inch per side. 1/8" I could live with, but 1/4" may require new rear wheels to get the offset just right with 275s I run back there.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...rd05/overview/

SSBC A125 or W125 (anyone know the difference?) using '87-'88 T-bird Turbo Coupe calipers, D-347 pads and 10.5x1" rotors (adjusts via conventional brake pedal use)
I like this implementation (more conventional adjustment approach) but haven't seen many people using either one of these.
Unknown if their 10.5" rotor hat's cited 0.24" thickness is thinner than TRS AFXRD05's 11" rotor.
$600-$650 street pricing is higher than TRS kit - is the kit easier to install & is it more day-to-day reliable than the TRS kit? I'm willing to spend the extra money if so, and even willing to give up some rotor torque (10.5 vs. 11) if the brake feel & reliability are better.
https://ssbrakes.com/i-10092154-gm-f...tors-a125.html

SSBC A125-30 or W125-30 using proprietary billet 1-piston calipers and 11.25x1" rotors
$950-ish price is approaching my limit, proprietary caliper, unknown pad availability. If there are some people who have had good / bad experiences regarding installation, brake feel, stopping performance & day-to-day reliability, please chime in.
https://ssbrakes.com/i-10092140-rear...s-w125-30.html

Master Power Brakes Legend kit - hard to tell if it uses same parts as TRS AFXRD05 or SSBC A125 / W125 - any comments? Also open to ideas from similar kits at Matt's Classic Bowties, Pirate Jack's, etc.

Wilwood 140-11398 - 4-piston caliper, internal expanding shoe parking brake, 11" rotor. Beautiful setup, but I lean toward a stock appearance and would feel odd re-painting the calipers to match the front.

Can't afford the Baer kit (which also seems to require 16" wheel minimum), same for Brembo. Not willing to spring for JL-8 kit as I can't even find a price or supply of parts / kit. Not a big fan of CPP's body of work based on neighbor's issues with their suspension & brake parts.

Thanks in advance for additional ideas and for understanding our quirky / reversible scope. Dad bought the Z back in '69, never so much as rolled the fenders, so the next owner will have to decide whether to take it 100% original with our crate of parts, or enjoy driving what's become a very fun-to-drive car similar to the Porsche Outlaw / Petrolicious ethos. Some might consider me a heretic for not replicating yet another Barrett-Jackson garage queen - that's OK. Driving on an early weekend morning is more personally satisfying to me - to each their own.

'69 Z/28 - Dad's orig. owner, 44K mi., match #s DZ302 & M20 preserved in glass case. LT-1 w/ 210 AFRs, 0.640" lift 253/259 @ .050" Erson roller and Tremec TKO600 in car for more fun & 11.7s @ 121 MPH on drag radials & pump gas.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 18, 05:54 PM
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Rich
 
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion: TRS (Caddy), SSBC (T-Bird), Wilwood or

Another option is to go with factory style corvette brakes Kore3 (KORE3 Industries LLC: On and Off-Road Performance Automotive Components) is awesome at getting you this and they know a lot about brakes, give them a call and tell them what you want and they will get you pricing and a good setup. I put a set of Wilwood on my rear setup and then called Kore3 about the setup for the front and ended up with a lot better brakes at a better cost and I can get parts at any NAPA or chevy dealer.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 18, 06:12 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion: TRS (Caddy), SSBC (T-Bird), Wilwood or

Those metric calipers used by TRS and others are not worth the effort imho. So many disappointed owners out there.

Don

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 18, 06:22 PM
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I’ll tell you that my rear brakes work, but I cant wait to get these 80s factory caddy disc/emergence brakes off my car. The e-brake setup sux, Not worth the savings to me. Should have went with Wilwood when I put the new rear in.
I cheaped out. 😞
I will be scraping them along with the leaf springs soon!

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 18, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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AFXRD13 option - may solve parking brake & offset issue

Thanks for your wisdom & guidance. I did some more digging, called TRS today and found another kit that might work. Sharing details so far & waiting on Tech dept to reply.

AFXRD13 kit fits staggered axle '69 layout, but it's not marketed on their main rear-disc swap part of the site. It's on a 14" rear disc swap part of the site. Only downside I see so far is the rotor diameter drops from 11" to 10.5" but that's OK for my usage (mostly auto-x, some twisty roads, maybe 3 track/DE events in the next 5 yrs where I'll practice mechanical empathy). OK, and the list price is 650-ish vs. 750-ish for Wilwoods (or 430ish for AFXRD05 which requires wheel changes, plus new pads, plus new axle line).

When I called, the rep said the AFXRD13 does not increase the track width 1/8" per side (as opposed to the AFXRD05 does increase track width 1/8"). That's key for me, as my existing wheel/tire combo is 275 width with no fender rolling and no rubbing. The 1/8" increase per side of the AFXRD05 setup was going to require different rear wheels to maintain my clearance / articulation.

Secondly, the AFXRD13 doesn't use the WS6 / Cadillac calipers (and their somewhat fussy-to-bleed, parking-brake-actuated adjustment approach vs. more normal adjustments done via pumping the brakes on other cars). Instead, the AFXRD13 uses the T-bird caliper. So there's still good parts availability, maybe easier bleeding, likely reduce parking brake issues.

So basically, the AFXRD13 sounds like SSBC's A125 or W125 (I still can't discern the difference btwn the two on their spec sheets), but from a company with a little better / wider reputation for customer support.

I'll report back after my call with Tech Support, re: more details on caliper confirmation, piston area, rotor width, parking brake design, method of adjusting pad-to-rotor clearance through lifecycle, etc.

'69 Z/28 - Dad's orig. owner, 44K mi., match #s DZ302 & M20 preserved in glass case. LT-1 w/ 210 AFRs, 0.640" lift 253/259 @ .050" Erson roller and Tremec TKO600 in car for more fun & 11.7s @ 121 MPH on drag radials & pump gas.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 18, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion: TRS (Caddy), SSBC (T-Bird), Wilwood or

Thank you. While I'd like to go with the AFXRD13 setup's T-bird calipers (per sales rep and tech person's calls vs. what's shown on website leveraged from AFXRD05), the $250 extra expense and similarity in track width drove me to order the AFXRD05 after confirming the AFXRD13 had the same track width increase as the '05. Reason is I found pics of drums being 2 to 2.5 / 16ths of an inch thick at the flange, vs both setups rotors were said to be 4/16ths (1/4") of an inch.

Went with Summit with their 90 day return policy having treated me well in the past, and ordered the shortened disc brake stainless line for the axle setup too.

Will try installing the AFXRD05 kit and post pics this winter. If tire/fender clearance gets too tight, I may get a machine shop mill down the hat area 1/16" (leaving total of 3/16", still more than drums' 1/8").

'69 Z/28 - Dad's orig. owner, 44K mi., match #s DZ302 & M20 preserved in glass case. LT-1 w/ 210 AFRs, 0.640" lift 253/259 @ .050" Erson roller and Tremec TKO600 in car for more fun & 11.7s @ 121 MPH on drag radials & pump gas.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 18, 04:56 AM
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bob
 
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion: TRS (Caddy), SSBC (T-Bird), Wilwood or

Just bought a front disc kit for my '67 and went with Wilwood. They have a good reputation.......

As for caliper color, not sure what and if they might charge extra, but Wilwood does offer other colors besides back and red. I had a link to their website for the color options they off, but I don't have enough post to add a hyperlink.......so do a google search
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 18, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion: TRS (Caddy), SSBC (T-Bird), Wilwood or

Would be interesting to hear more about folks who have used a rear Baer or Wilwood setup, maybe as part of a matching front setup.

From what I've read so far, the rear axle C-clip design with Wilwood's design yields pad knockback and inconsistent pedal feel, vs. the caliper design used on the OEM 79-85 Eldorado and 87-88 T-bird Turbo Coupe.

'69 Z/28 - Dad's orig. owner, 44K mi., match #s DZ302 & M20 preserved in glass case. LT-1 w/ 210 AFRs, 0.640" lift 253/259 @ .050" Erson roller and Tremec TKO600 in car for more fun & 11.7s @ 121 MPH on drag radials & pump gas.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 18, 10:35 AM
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Don
 
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Re: Rear disc brake conversion: TRS (Caddy), SSBC (T-Bird), Wilwood or

In my experience you want a rear floating caliper not a fixed caliper. Baer or F body LS1 setups work well if you size the master cylinder correctly. C6 based setups from Kore3 also have a floating caliper and work very well.

You couldn’t pay me to run Cadillac metric calipers. Been there, done that....

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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1956 Cameo project - C5 drivetrain
1969 Z28 factory air project
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