Discuss: Hybrid Guldstrand Mod w/ Tall Balljoints - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old Jul 6th, 19, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Discuss: Hybrid Guldstrand Mod w/ Tall Balljoints

I am doing some work for a local guy with a '67 Firebird. One of the upgrades is a new set of coil springs to reset the front height to stock or just below stock level. Since the suspension is apart I am setting up the Guldstrand mod to enhance the steering.

I have templates that drop the front hole .875" and rear hole .775". As discussed before, this places the rear hole at the beginning of the bend and requires one trims the length of the first shim in the stack. This thread discusses the hole drop distance concerns with photos.

https://www.camaros.net/forums/16-br...-question.html

This morning I was thinking. If I drop the hole locations enough to allow rearward movement of the e-arm location, and the .100" difference (.875" - .775"), and add the .5" taller ball joints, the net result would be similar to the full Guldstrand mod with stock ball joints. This hybrid upgrade may allow upper a-arm clearance of the subframe bracket without clearance modification and allowing return to stock if needed sometime in the future.

So maybe I drop the front hole .500" and the rear .400" with the same rearward .250" shift. The 1/2" taller ball joint will make up the difference plus 1/8" more. Then the trimming of the a-arm mount bracket will be minimal if any, and the first spacer in the rear hole will require less trimming.

What do you all think? I'm thinking it will work.

I'm adding a photo of my driver's side template for reference.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 19, 04:02 PM
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Re: Discuss: Hybrid Guldstrand Mod w/ Tall Balljoints

with tubular upper A arms, you can do .9" taller upper ball joints and you don't need to do the Guldstrand mod at all. Anything over a .5" upper alone will increase bump steer and you should consider doing bump steer correction if going that route.

Also look at the Ride Tech tru-turn system as it fixes bump steer and their tall spindles fix camber gain for a better system in the end. couple that with a good steering box and the driver will thank you.

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 19, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Discuss: Hybrid Guldstrand Mod w/ Tall Balljoints

Thank you David. This guy is on a limited budget and does not want to spring for the tubular a-arms. We are going to stick with the Guldstrand modification with the stock a-arms. I will discuss with him the benefit of tall tie rod ends and see if he wants to go there too. I'm thinking my idea of a partial G-mod with the tall ball joints will work out well.

On my car I have the full G-mod plus the .5" tall ball joints utilizing an angled wedge to eliminate the chance of binding. It drives and handles really well.

Regards,
Andrew

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 19, 05:40 PM
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Re: Discuss: Hybrid Guldstrand Mod w/ Tall Balljoints

Nothing wrong with doing what you are asking. I would highly, highly recommend doing the .5" tall outer tie rod ends.

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 19, 07:14 PM
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Re: Discuss: Hybrid Guldstrand Mod w/ Tall Balljoints

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpozzi View Post
with tubular upper A arms, you can do .9" taller upper ball joints and you don't need to do the Guldstrand mod at all. Anything over a .5" upper alone will increase bump steer and you should consider doing bump steer correction if going that route.

Also look at the Ride Tech tru-turn system as it fixes bump steer and their tall spindles fix camber gain for a better system in the end. couple that with a good steering box and the driver will thank you.
David,
What happens if you install .9" upper ball joints in the stock suspension and also install the .5" tall tie rod ends ?
Will binding occur ?

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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 19, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Discuss: Hybrid Guldstrand Mod w/ Tall Balljoints

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Originally Posted by davidpozzi View Post
Nothing wrong with doing what you are asking. I would highly, highly recommend doing the .5" tall outer tie rod ends.
Noted. I have the tall tie rod ends on my car and put them on the '67 Camaro I recently worked on. The difference when driving is noticeable. I'll encourage this guy to include them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NashvilleCat View Post
David,
What happens if you install .9" upper ball joints in the stock suspension and also install the .5" tall tie rod ends ?
Will binding occur ?
Because the ball joints and tie rods work independently from each other I do not think binding would be a concern.

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Some photos:
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 19, 02:23 PM
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Re: Discuss: Hybrid Guldstrand Mod w/ Tall Balljoints

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Originally Posted by NashvilleCat View Post
David,
What happens if you install .9" upper ball joints in the stock suspension and also install the .5" tall tie rod ends ?
Will binding occur ?
The .9" tall upper ball joint from Proforged is OK as far as binding in my testing, but it comes close to binding with bump stops completely removed. Adding the .5" tall outer tie rods does not have any binding. I tend to recommend the .5" tall upper BJ with .5" tall outer tie rod end and tubular arms. This combo has less bump steer than the .9" tall UBJ with .5" tall tie rod ends. The tubular upper arms allow more positive caster which helps gain neg camber in turns only and it tilts the steering arms down for less bump steer. I think the .5 UBJ with .5 outer tie rod ends and increased caster is the best option unless you do something to fix the bump steer better, like bend the steering arms or the Ride Tech spindles with Tru Turn.

Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
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Last edited by davidpozzi; Jul 13th, 19 at 10:38 AM.
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