69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake? - Team Camaro Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions, Steering & Handling

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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 19, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

A friends 69 had a front left wheel bearing explode. Unfortunately he is lacking skills, tools and physical ability to deal wit this..and he started to pull everything apart himself...then I get a "help" text.

The case of the outside bearing had welded itself to the spindle so it had to come off, especially since my friend tried cutting it off and FU the spindle shaft. He had removed everything but the spindle when I got there so I am not sure how the rear seal goes in the hub of the Wilwood brake kit as it was not "in" the hub itself.

Do you put new rear bearing in the hub then install the seal onto hub?

When I get to his house the car is supported on a block under front DS frame with car on a sloped driveway, both ball joint castle nuts removed...and no jack under the lower A arm. I assume the shock was holding the upper & lower A arms from flying apart so I put a crap tiny floor jack he had under the lower A arm and got the lower ball joint to come lose by hitting around the spindle with a hammer. The top one I needed to use a pickle fork so that ball joint is now dead and he will get a new one.

The car is lowered but IDK if he has drop spindles or lowering, Hotchkis, springs

Sadly this is a car that was "thrown" together by a shop for the PO who bailed on the project. My friend bought it from a consignment place for WAY to much $. There are so many other things on the car that are just not right. It does have some high $ parts. All Hotchkis upper/lower A arms & shocks with a Wilwood brake kit. The front rotor needs replacing as it got chewed when the bearing exploded. While he claimed he had it "lubed" the ball joint rubber covers are completely flat, not any grease in them and the hub had no signs of wheel bearing grease although there was some on the rear bearing when I saw it.

I told him to buy a new spindle, rotor, ball joint, bearings with races (I got the damaged outer race out of his hub), new castle nuts, notched outer bearing washer, stainless steel cotter pins, wheel bearing grease and a lube gun & grease, so he can actually lube the high $ parts that have never been lubed, and I would help him get it back together...unfortunately he pulled it apart before I saw it and have the ? on how the inner seal goes on the Wilwood hub.

thanks
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 19, 12:54 PM
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Michael
 
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

On the regular OEM hubs and single piece rotors, the inboard bearing drops (after lubing) into the hub and then the seal get installed.

If the OD of the inner bearing is greater than the ID of the inboard seal, then you would use the above procedure for the aftermarket stuff.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 19, 01:53 PM
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Steve
 
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

pictures would help us visualize what you're working with. Wilwood has most of the product instructions online.

Steve
1968 that started life and a 6 banger with a PG. Now it's a 350 with a TKO600, Moser 12 bolt, Speedtech LCA/UCA, ATS Tall Spindles, Hotchkis Springs, Forgeline ZX3P, C5 (Kore3) brakes with other cool stuff from Ron Davis, Vintage Air and soon to be Terminator EFI.


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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 19, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eville View Post
pictures would help us visualize what you're working with. Wilwood has most of the product instructions online.
don't have pics but did get a brake kit # from my friend from the documentation that came with the car and called Willwood for part # for rotor & 411 about the hub that is part of the kit. Willwood is close to us in Camarillo, CA

IDK why the wheel bearing exploded but assume due to over tighten, or to lose, castle nut on spindle and minimal grease used by shop that did the car

Fortunately no body damage as a result, just hard parts.

Unfortunately this owner who has limited mechanical skills bought a car that started as a 6 cyl donor a shop made into a restomod "SS Tribute 350/350" so everything on it is not stock so "assembly manuals" are of no help with all the aftermarket systems on the car
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 19, 06:58 PM
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Garth
 
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

My recollection is that the bearing drops in then the seal.

How does a bearing explode? Is the hub shredded or something?

1969 Camaro SS 350 LeMans Blue
2015 Z/28 - Red
2 x 1967 R/Tís
1977 Power Wagon
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 19, 08:29 PM
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Al
 
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

Roger, For future reference when removing a spindle always bust the upper ball joint taper
loose first. Remove the upper BJ cotter pin and back off the nut about 3 turns. With a jack
under the lower control arm, but not quite touching, smack the upper spindle knuckle
(not the thread) to pop it loose. Now do the same for the lower BJ allowing the loose nut
on the upper BJ to hold the upper spindle. No need to ruin a BJ with a pickle fork. On the
bearing seal, pack the bearings first with wheel bearing grease. Not just lube but pack them.
I'm sure there are youtube videos on it. Spread grease on the inner race, drop the bearing in
and then install the seal. Depending on the type of seal you may need a seal installation tool.
I would guess the parts houses rent them for free. Do not over tighten the spindle nut. Snug
it up lightly while spinning the rotor. Then back off the nut to the first cotter pin hole. I can't
count the number of spindle bearings I have replaced due to over tightening.

Al

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 19, 09:49 PM
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

Modern brake, wheel and tire techs don't know to DO NOT TAKE ALL THE PLAY out of the front bearings for our cars.

They snug them up so there is no play and call it good.... until a bearing overheats and fails.

As per the golden rule of yore. Snug up the spindle adjustment nut and then back off a flat so you can put the cotter pin in. The front bearings are supposed to be loose.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 19, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

Appreciate the notes Al....but I am quite familiar with how I would remove/install these parts.

When I got involved the owner had taken everything off but the spindle. He had already removed the castle nuts from both ball joints with no support under the A arm and he had hit both ball joint studs with a hammer and FU the threads of the upper ball joint. I put a floor jack under A arm, hit both upper & lower spindle to try and loosen ball joint. Lower arm came right off but upper was stubborn. Given the threads of that ball joint were already FU it had to be replaced so the pickle fork was the quick removal of that...although it took several hits with a 5 lb hand sledge to the pickle fork to pop it off. In the bigger picture of parts $, ball joints is pretty cheap

Walking into this shiat storm with most of the stuff already hack job removed I was just trying to wrap my arms around on the hub assembly as the bearing and seal were no longer seated in it. My initial ?, without having any replacement parts yet, was the rear seal. I now see the recess lip on the hub so now assume the seal fits in that. The front race was totally trashed from the disintegrated bearing so I punched that out with a socket and will press in a new one. The rear race is fine

Owner has expressed regret to me he dove into this instead of taking it to a shop as it is over his abilities so I am just trying to help him out..
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 19, 10:15 PM
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Al
 
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal805 View Post
Appreciate the notes Al....but I am quite familiar with how I would remove/install these parts.

When I got involved the owner had taken everything off but the spindle. He had already removed the castle nuts from both ball joints with no support under the A arm and he had hit both ball joint studs with a hammer and FU the threads of the upper ball joint. I put a floor jack under A arm, hit both upper & lower spindle to try and loosen ball joint. Lower arm came right off but upper was stubborn. Given the threads of that ball joint were already FU it had to be replaced so the pickle fork was the quick removal of that...although it took several hits with a 5 lb hand sledge to the pickle fork to pop it off. In the bigger picture of parts $, ball joints is pretty cheap

Walking into this shiat storm with most of the stuff already hack job removed I was just trying to wrap my arms around on the hub assembly as the bearing and seal were no longer seated in it. My initial ?, without having any replacement parts yet, was the rear seal. I now see the recess lip on the hub so now assume the seal fits in that. The front race was totally trashed from the disintegrated bearing so I punched that out with a socket and will press in a new one. The rear race is fine

Owner has expressed regret to me he dove into this instead of taking it to a shop as it is over his abilities so I am just trying to help him out..
Roger, I know you walked into a hell of a mess and can appreciate you helping your friend.
I didn't mean for my initial reply to sound like a tongue lashing if you took it that way. Your
friend is lucky the ball joints didn't pop loose when he was trying it himself. That's how people
get hurt.

Al

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 19, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

Well this had a happy ending. The owner ordered the parts but got the wrong wheel bearing. I called Wilwood and the tech was very helpful. Their hubs take specific bearings but he gave me the National #'s and the local Autozone had them. The tech said they heat their hubs in a furnace/oven before attempting to press in the race so that tip was helpful. Put race in freezer and hub in oven and used a BFH & socket to pound in the race.

New spindle, upper ball joint, rotor & bearings/seal, castle nut & cotter pins. Got it all buttoned up for the guy and he is back on the road.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 19, 12:29 PM
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

Good to know you got it taken care of. I'm sure your friend was appreciative.

Al

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 19, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal805 View Post
Well this had a happy ending. The owner ordered the parts but got the wrong wheel bearing. I called Wilwood and the tech was very helpful. Their hubs take specific bearings but he gave me the National #'s and the local Autozone had them. The tech said they heat their hubs in a furnace/oven before attempting to press in the race so that tip was helpful. Put race in freezer and hub in oven and used a BFH & socket to pound in the race.

New spindle, upper ball joint, rotor & bearings/seal, castle nut & cotter pins. Got it all buttoned up for the guy and he is back on the road.
Good news. Hopefully you checked the bearings on the other side.

Steve
1968 that started life and a 6 banger with a PG. Now it's a 350 with a TKO600, Moser 12 bolt, Speedtech LCA/UCA, ATS Tall Spindles, Hotchkis Springs, Forgeline ZX3P, C5 (Kore3) brakes with other cool stuff from Ron Davis, Vintage Air and soon to be Terminator EFI.


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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 69 Wilwood Frt Disc Brake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eville View Post
Hopefully you checked the bearings on the other side.
I told the guy to buy another inside hub seal so we could re-pack those bearings.....and a 12 pack of beer :-)

While stuff breaks on cars this was due to crap work by the shop that built the car and unfortunately there are other pending issues that will surface as a result with this car.
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