Should I chuck the traction bars? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old Jan 27th, 06, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Brian
 
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Location: Westchester NY
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Should I chuck the traction bars?

I was thinking of removing my traction bars. I just insstalled 17" rims and tires so i am not doing many holeshots. Will the car ride and/or take bumps better w/o the traction bars? Will the ride outweigh the occational straight launch? I was thinking of getting a rear sway bar instead. Thanks for your opinions. Brian.

1969 original SS in family since 1971.350/330 crate w/ comp 270 roller cam,2004R,355 12 Bolt posi,P/S P/FTD Brakes P/W P/TOP Orig A/C car but removed.

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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old Jan 27th, 06, 11:10 PM
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Harley D
 
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Re: Should I chuck the traction bars?

If your not planning many hard accelerations then take the bars off. You should notice a little better ride quality without them. What are you running for rear springs? With a good set of aftermarket multi leafs you probably won't need the bars anyway. As for running a rear sway bar that needs more info. What rate springs in the front? What size sway bar in the front? What size and quality of tires in the front/rear? How much hp? Any other front suspension mods. (guldstrand mod., fast ratio steering box, delrin/poly bushings, tubular A-arms) How aggressive do you plan to drive?
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Originally Posted by davidpozzi
REAR SWAY BAR?
There is less need for a rear sway bar on a multi leaf spring Camaro BECAUSE...
1. The rear roll center of the Camaro leaf spring design is inherently much higher than the front suspension, which is below ground level. This transfers cornering forces at the rear at a much higher rate compared to the front. The closer the roll center height is to the center of mass (at that end of the car) the more the cornering forces are transfered directly. (not through the springs or swaybars) to the tire tread.
This is why the old sprint cars with cross spring suspension didn't need swaybars. The roll center is about 1 1/2" below the center of mass, or mass centroid axis.
The disadvantage of the sprint cars high roll center is, if the cornering weight transfers automatically thru the high roll center. There is nothing the springs or shocks can do to absorb bumps and keep the tires from breaking loose (cornering). The car will act like there is a HUGE sway bar on it.
2. When a Camaro leans, it is actually twisting the rear leafs, a little, it's probably twisting the stock bushings more than the leafs. This adds resistance to roll.
You can see this all adds up to higher roll resistance at the rear than you might normally think.
Later 80's Camaros had bigger swaybars on the rear but they have coil spring rear suspensions.
I am NOT saying you absolutely don't need a rear sway bar. If you stiffen the front enough, you will eventually cause the car to understeer and have to add a rear bar. It will take very little rear bar to balance a big front bar.
If the Guldstrand mod is done it raises the front roll center and adds traction to the front suspension at the same time. This combination may require addition of a rear bar.
The higher front roll center transfers weight when cornering similar to what the suspension does, but is independent of the suspension. If the roll center were raised to the same height of the front center of gravity (about 15") there would be no need for any front roll bar or springs to keep the car from leaning.
Indeed, if the front roll center were raised HIGHER than the front center of mass, the car could very well roll the opposite direction in a turn!
Notice that on most rear bar kits, the arms are fairly long and the diamiter is usually small. The rear bar winds up making a small difference, if that difference balances an understeering car, fine. If not, it's not needed.
Guldstrand does not recommend adding inkage to the rear suspension, a rear swaybar or other stuff like panhard bars, or watts linkage. He feels it will wind up hurting rear traction. I feel the same way. I've seen cars with their suspension binding because of incompatable suspension "Add Ons". Make shure you aren't fixing a problem you didn't have in the first place.
Wider and stickier tires on the rear of the car will increase the need for a rear sway bar.
More weight on the rear, or less weight on the front will increase the need for a rear sway bar.
This is just my opinion on the subject, of course you should do whatever works for you, but with the understanding of how the front and rear suspensions relate to each other. What you are after is a suspension that is compatable front and rear, balanced, and not binding or bottming in any way. If there is any binding the suspension is not tuneable.

.


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We learn life's important lessons in kindergarten.

Harley D
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Last edited by HarleyD67; Jan 27th, 06 at 11:22 PM.
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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old Jan 28th, 06, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Brian
 
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Re: Should I chuck the traction bars?

Thanks for the reply. Stock suspention with ureathane bushings in the front.
Stock multileafs in the rear which i rebuilt years ago. If it means anything if i push down on the rear end at the rear spoiler the car is stiff. New 225x45x17s in front 255x50x17s in the rear. I just use the car to go to cruise nights and an occasional launch. Not planning to take corners at 90.
If it will only a little better ride I would leave the T bars on and get a better sway bar for the front. I thought it might make a big difference. Thanks for the advice.

1969 original SS in family since 1971.350/330 crate w/ comp 270 roller cam,2004R,355 12 Bolt posi,P/S P/FTD Brakes P/W P/TOP Orig A/C car but removed.

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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old Jan 29th, 06, 11:12 PM
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Harley D
 
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Re: Should I chuck the traction bars?

Then the question is. Does it feel like the rear bottoms out when you hit a bump? That would be the snubber at the front of the traction bar hitting the spring eye when the springs flex. If not you'll probably leave the bars or because the wouldn't be ant "great ride quality improvement, only a minor one.


"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."-Dr. Seuss
We learn life's important lessons in kindergarten.

Harley D
'67 coupe 427SBC
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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 06, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Brian
 
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Re: Should I chuck the traction bars?

Harley,
You are on the money. On a good NY bump the rear end will bottom out, but it is not horrible. For only a small improvement i guess i should leave well enough alone. Thanks bud. Brian.

1969 original SS in family since 1971.350/330 crate w/ comp 270 roller cam,2004R,355 12 Bolt posi,P/S P/FTD Brakes P/W P/TOP Orig A/C car but removed.

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