Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 07, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Eric
 
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Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Guys,

I am considering widening my stock 68 wheel wells about 1" in order to fit a 295-65R15 (29.5" tall) drag radial under my car. I currently use a 275-60R15 (28"tall). I have 1/2" clearance inside my current tires (less when going around corners)

I am not really considering doing this for traction as much as I am for a taller drag radial. Currently I race most of the time on motor and go through the traps at about 6800-7000 RPM at 122 mph. When I spray it I am going through the traps at 7300-7500 RPM at 131 MPH (a little higher than I intended for this motor to go)

I have searched this forum and am comfortable welding filler panels into the wheel house, even relocating the shock an inch if needed -- but I do not want to modify the frame rails and I do not want to relocate the leaf springs. The back seat is still in use so I do not want to mess with that either.

Any of you guys with first hand experience doing this? Is 1" worth it?

E85 racer and E85 carb builder

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68 Camaro, E85 powered 427" small block. 9.96 @ 133 MPH, 1.319 sixty foot on motor. 5.92 eighth @ 116 with a 1.42 sixty breaking beams with back tire on the bottle
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 07, 01:33 PM
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Eric, I've followed your car for some time and can't say 1" is really worth it, but what if you dropped down a little on the gears ?
You could mini-tub by adding a 2" or so strip in the wheel well moving it to the frame rail and making your own (or buying) shock re-locater kit (looks very simple to me). Then you're going to run into the over-all size of the tire and will need to open the wheel well front to back also... thats going to take some work IMO.

68 Camaro~LSx ~all motor
1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 07, 03:45 PM
 
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Eric,

Please consider installing a 17" drag radial IF you can find one and back space it properly and then if needed, install coil-overs to raise her..

This way, You won't have to mess w/ the lower shock bracket b/c it will tuck up inside a 17" rim!

I also figure something like a 17" x 9" rim w/ a 5.5" back spacing will fit regardless!! BUT PLEASE check me OUT CLOSE here!!

My old L-60's measured a modern 298-53/14 on 14" x 9" rims w/ 3.5" b/s and if they would have been 17's, I would have gained about 1.25" to 1.5" back next to the inner wall fine b/c the lower shock mount would have tucked up inside the inner rim just like my 17" Pony-car Bullitts do now!!!!

And then, I figure that w/ stiff leaf's, I may have gotten by w/o my coil-overs??

pdq67



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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 07, 05:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

You may be onto something with the shock bracket Paul. I'd been thinking about the possibility of welding on an extension on my lower brackets to move it inboard (I'm running the slide-a-links so the bracket is real thick and weldable.)

Thanks Doug. The more I think about this, the more I think you may be right. The diameter of the wheel well opening may be a problem with the taller tire. Especially right in the front where the quarter tucks under the car. I better do some more measuring.

FWIW I would fab something to relocate the upper end of the shock if needed. That should be EASY.

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68 Camaro, E85 powered 427" small block. 9.96 @ 133 MPH, 1.319 sixty foot on motor. 5.92 eighth @ 116 with a 1.42 sixty breaking beams with back tire on the bottle

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 07, 09:03 AM
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Hah Hah, I see it happening before my eyes, how long before you take that "driven to the track" out of your sig?........ J/K

I would also seriously consider just changing your gears, I'm sure you could get a larger tire in there but honestly think the best bet is gearing, it will be similar cost wise without altering the car. Nitrous likes a bit lower numerical gear, it makes torque down low and will pull hard in the top end.
Are you still running a 4.10? I would consider a 3.73, in fact a buddy runs a 406 in his nova with a 27" tire and 3.73 gears worked best for him, (went from a 4.10 in fact) he goes high 9's on a 150 shot. Plus, you know you can hook a 275/60 drag radial, it's done all the time. You may need to look into a timer of some sort eventually but I still like that plan better, personally.

Sean

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 07, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

If anything Sean the Camaro has become more drive able the last couple years. The power brakes work better and it idles better with the same cam in my 410 compared to how it did with my old 383. Not to mention my new Coan converter is not only faster, but it is tighter on the street -- so good try buddy LOL Add a taller tire or a lower number gear and it will be more drive able yet !! (as long as I don't grenade the motor on N2O spinning 7500 through the traps.)

I'm thinking that gears would probably be the best bet. Maybe a 3.90?

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 07, 02:24 PM
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

3.90's from 4.11's will drop you some (500 rpm ?)

27" tires at 65mph with 3.73's was 3000ish rpm in my car for a comparison. (and a speed warning from Mr. State Trooper to prove it )

68 Camaro~LSx ~all motor
1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 07, 09:28 PM
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Here is how much the rpm's will drop...no converter slip factored in.....

122 mph....

28" tires/4.10's.....6010rpms thru the traps
28" tires/3.90's.....5716rpms thru the traps
28" tires/3.73's.....5467rpms thru the traps

69 Camaro
491/AFR 315'S/Straub hyd roller
TH400/GV OD
9" 3.50
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 07, 12:06 AM
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric68 View Post
If anything Sean the Camaro has become more drive able the last couple years. The power brakes work better and it idles better with the same cam in my 410 compared to how it did with my old 383. Not to mention my new Coan converter is not only faster, but it is tighter on the street -- so good try buddy LOL Add a taller tire or a lower number gear and it will be more drive able yet !! (as long as I don't grenade the motor on N2O spinning 7500 through the traps.)

I'm thinking that gears would probably be the best bet. Maybe a 3.90?

Thats cool it's still a good driver, that's my issue I fight going too far because I drive mine all the time. Amazing the effect a few more cubes has on a motor combo isn't it.
Have you done all the rpm calculators to see what gear or tire you would theoretically want? My guess would be a 3.73 and a 28" tire would be good, but then again a 3.90 might be the ticket too. You will almost have to figure the % slip you have with your converter, then calc new gears plus slip to see what you are going to be at (of course you know this, just thinking out loud).
By the way, what size/stall converter did you end up with? I'm looking at a couple of coan converters for my car, my current one is too tight down low and slips a bit much up top, bad combination, I'm sure I'm leaving something on the table there.
Good luck with it, sounds like you really have it dialed in, are you learning to like that ethanol?

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 07, 06:35 AM
 
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Smile Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Eric,

I'd seriously consider getting hold of a tire/wheel combination like I mentioned earlier before I touched the car by mini-tubbing or gear switching it.

You can always get out the smoke wrench and tools later...

He, He!!

It's cool the way the shocks tuck up inside the 17's..........

pdq67



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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 07, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Eric
 
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Yeah Paul, the problem is 17's have no sidewall to absorb a hard hit on the launch. They wouldn't hook. On top of that the tire selection gets very slim in a 17" rim (for drag racing anyways)

6D9 -- thanks for the calc info. 300 RPM sounds about right. That would take me down to 6500-6600 on a motor pass and 7000-7200 on a N2O pass.

The thing with changing the gearing is that I race it most of the time on motor for the bracket races, and the 4.10 gear and 28" tall is PERFECT for that. But, I am considering trying my hand at the 10.0 indexed class next year which means I would be running on the N2O and trapping at 131-132 MPH. I glanced down at the tach on a couple N2O passes and have seen anywhere from 7300 to 7500 RPM crossing the stripe. 7300 I can live with but 7500 is pushing it harder than I want.

Sean, My new converter is a custom Coan 8". It footbrakes to 3200 and flashes to 4950 on motor according to my LM1. My sixty foot times picked up .05 almost immediately from my old Coan 10" and my 8" BTE (these both were consistent 1.47). On N2O I think it flashes to about 5300.

Ethanol is good stuff. I like it more than I expected. The car ran new bests this summer on it and I had been tweaking my gasoline tuneup for a few years now. I think there is still a little more in the ethanol.

E85 racer and E85 carb builder

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68 Camaro, E85 powered 427" small block. 9.96 @ 133 MPH, 1.319 sixty foot on motor. 5.92 eighth @ 116 with a 1.42 sixty breaking beams with back tire on the bottle
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 07, 07:02 PM
 
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Question Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Eric,

I'm considering these for the back of my car once it's on the road for when I want to play.

http://www.mandhtires.com/store.php?...on=show_detail

275/50-R17's

Are they any good??

pdq67



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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 07, 09:11 PM
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Eric-

I am pretty sure in one of the latest Summit or jeg's catalogues I saw a shock relocator plate that was pretty cheap.......fabbing them up prolly won't be to hard but seems like the set up I saw was under a 100 bucks.

1968 Camaro NHRA/IHRA SS/C 'Super Stocker' 396/Jerico
1968 Street/Strip Camaro 350 w/PG
1968 Caprice NHRA/IHRA Stock ELiminator O/SA 327-250 HP



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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 07, 08:10 PM
 
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

Ttt....

I'm pushy is all............... And Merry, Merry!!

"Eric,

I'm considering these for the back of my car once it's on the road for when I want to play.

http://www.mandhtires.com/store.php?...on=show_detail

275/50-R17's

Are they any good??"

pdq67

PS., and Santa came through our front door earlier this evening and you shoulda seen our two wonderful little Grandbaby girls eye's light up!!

The oldest, Ali, was taken aback, then settled in and FINALLY aasked Santa if she could look in his big bag..

Talk about a hoot! The wife almost had a stroke wondering who Santa was, (our beloved S-i-L!!!)......................

I don't know how he got outta the house??? He, He!!!



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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Dec 26th, 07, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stealth mini-tub or ideas on how to fit a 295-65-15 radial

That's funny Paul -- kids are a blast at Christmas. This year my boys got some cool stuff. Both got a new fishing pole, snow boards, and other toys they can use now.

My boys are 7 and 9 now -- both know there isn't a Santa. I think they figured it out last year when "Santa's" handwritten note looked a lot like Dad's writing. I left them a note thanking them for the cookies and lecturing them about being good for Mom and Dad and remembering the real reason for the season. LOL My "Uncle Don" used to play Santa when I was a little kid, what a blast that was . . .

I haven't seen those M&H drag radials yet. They look nice in the video and the price doesn't look bad for a 17" tire (my 28" tall 275-60R15's) go for about $186. I have heard that the new Hoosier DRs are very good, I know that the MT drag radials are also very good -- just haven't heard or seen of the new M&H Drag Radials. I don't know anyone using a 17" drag radial and making it hook either, so if you figure it out let us know!

E85 racer and E85 carb builder

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68 Camaro, E85 powered 427" small block. 9.96 @ 133 MPH, 1.319 sixty foot on motor. 5.92 eighth @ 116 with a 1.42 sixty breaking beams with back tire on the bottle
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