2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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Les
 
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2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

Hi all.
Firstly I'd like to say that this is my first post and I'm resident in the UK. Don't hold it against me! I joined Team Camaro last week because the advice and experience available is invaluable.
I have a question regarding the old favourite subject of wheel size and backspace. I trawled through the forums and the images are a great help but I just wanted to check that my proposed wheel/tyre combo will fit and look the business.
I have a '68 convertible and after a few heartstopping moments with the manual drums, I've purchased a 4 wheel power disc conversion from Rick's Camaro. This is a Right Stuff Detailing product and I'm also fitting 2" drop spindles and 2" lowering blocks. The tech guy at Right Stuff informed me that I will get a 1/4" increase in front width and a 1/8" increase at the back.
I've just been out and had a really good measure up of the existing drums. After compensating for the increased track width I am proposing the following combo:
Front - 17x7 with 4" b/s and 235/45/17
Rear - 17x8 with 4.75" b/s and 255/45/17

Any advice welcome and gratefully received.
Thanks a lot
Les
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 08:20 AM
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

In case you haven't read the sticky regarding drop spindles and 1st gens here it is:
https://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=132682

Main issue with drop spindles is that tie rods end up hitting the inner edges of the rims if the rim isn't big enough. I don't know if 17 is big enough. Most here have lowered the front via coil springs instead of drop spindles. Drop spindles aside, check out this thread regarding Right Stuff front brakes. Where I am going with this is....if you're getting the same Right Stuff kit that johnnymac did along with the 4 inch BS on the front you may have issues. Right Stuff brake kit seems to be a little "fatter" causing the wheel/tire to be pushed out bit. Johnnymac ran 235/45/17 with 4.25 BS and had rub issues on one side. If I recall, we all thought more BS or "thinner" brake kit would resolve the issue. After it was all done he ended with 215/45/17 on the front and issue went away. In your case, your are going with same brake kit and LESS BS which may not be a good thing.

https://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=160013

I believe you should be OK with your rear combo.

Matt

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

Matt, thanks for your reply. I should have researched the spindles more thoroughly!
I've measured from the tie rod to the front face of the drum brake and it's 4.5". Given that the new hub will add another 0.25" this gives me 4.75" from the tie rod to the front face of the hub, not allowing for tyre bulge.
I have old 14x6 ET five spokes on the car now with 3.25" bs. These give me 1.5" of rim clearance to the tie rod and just under an inch to the tyre but they are 225/70/14 so they bulge quite a bit.
I figure that with a lower profile tyre and a 4" bs I will have 0.75" clearance from the rim to the tie rod and 0.75" worth of tyre clearance.
Alternatively, I could exchange the spindles for stock height and get some springs. Seems like this would be the sensible approach if most other owners go this route.
Do the springs change the geometry or do they just go straight in?
Thanks again
Les
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 01:01 PM
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

There is no geometry change with the springs. Don't mean to talk you out of the drop spindles but I have heard and read a lot of not so good stories about them on 1st gens. I would say the concensus here is not to use them and that's is why I stayed away from them when I rebuilt my front end. That doesn't mean there isn't a drop spindle setup out there that will work. You just need to reseach as much as possible and be certain that the drop spindle will work along with wheel/tire, brake kit, etc setup.

If your goal is to lower the front then springs is the safe choice. If the idea is to correct the goemetry then G-Mod is the safe, popular and cheap choice, followed by tall ball joints.

Matt

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 01:17 PM
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

Please dont do the drop spindles. Here is my car on them.. yes they look sick. But wait until u are draging the damn headers on the ground.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

Cheers Matt. The suppliers won't commit to wheel advice and there's so much info out there it's confusing for a novice.
I'll speak to the suppliers again tomorrow and see what they say about the known problems with spindles.
I don't think there will be a problem exchanging the spindles and my goal is solely to lower.
Thanks again. Much appreciated. I'm off for a quick beer to celebrate England spanking the Aussies in the cricket. LOL.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

That does it. I'm already changing the headers for stubbies because the long Headman's I have now catch on ramps and big bumps with stock height.
Looks like you've got more than a 2" drop on that thing.
Thanks for the input.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 01:30 PM
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 327Les View Post
That does it. I'm already changing the headers for stubbies because the long Headman's I have now catch on ramps and big bumps with stock height.
Looks like you've got more than a 2" drop on that thing.
Thanks for the input.

Well the Coilovers arent adjusted all the way up yet.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 03:16 PM
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

I really hope you ordered the drop spindles and brakes from the same place or the brake supplier know what spindles you're using... Stock disc's don't fit... the drop spindles use the newer metric disc's.

And BTW.... welcome to TC

68 Camaro~LSx ~all motor
1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 09, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

Thanks Doug. It's good to be part of the team.
All items came from Rick's Camaro as part of a compatible kit. Who needs metric anyway! These are American cars for goodness sake!
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 09, 12:35 PM
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 327Les View Post
Matt, thanks for your reply. I should have researched the spindles more thoroughly!
I've measured from the tie rod to the front face of the drum brake and it's 4.5". Given that the new hub will add another 0.25" this gives me 4.75" from the tie rod to the front face of the hub, not allowing for tyre bulge.
I have old 14x6 ET five spokes on the car now with 3.25" bs. These give me 1.5" of rim clearance to the tie rod and just under an inch to the tyre but they are 225/70/14 so they bulge quite a bit.
I figure that with a lower profile tyre and a 4" bs I will have 0.75" clearance from the rim to the tie rod and 0.75" worth of tyre clearance.
Alternatively, I could exchange the spindles for stock height and get some springs. Seems like this would be the sensible approach if most other owners go this route.
Do the springs change the geometry or do they just go straight in?
Thanks again
Les
All those measurements sound good, but the drop spindles move the tie rod in relation to the tire. So, they don't really help unless you know how much and in what direction the tie rod moves.

If you want to up grade your brakes and are looking to get 17" rims I would look into the ls1 camaro brakes or c5 vette brakes. Search the site and you will have lots of good ideas. And much better brakes than included in that kit

Also, drop springs do change the geometry but, for the better (not that great to start with) They do however just drop right in.

Also, if you are going to all this trouble look up the g-mod (again search the site it should come up). Its worth the time.

Good luck and I hope they will take the brake kit back and you don't eat to much in shipping.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 09, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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Les
 
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Re: 2" drop and disc brake conversion - which wheels?

Thanks for the advice. Sorry I can't see your name on your profile.
To be honest with you, I've never done much more than serious tinkering so it was a priority for me to get a kit that would drop straight in. Making all new lines is going to be challenging enough for me and that was before I realised the BS issues with the new rims!
The kit I have seems fairly robust and combined with the springs should give me what I'm looking for which is improved stopping power.
We're nearly at the end of the English summer now, it's started raining already, so I'll be starting work soon.
I'll look at the mods you've recommended for future projects.
Cheers
Les
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