Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars - Team Camaro Tech
Wheels & Tires What fits what?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 21st, 10, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
Will
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alix, AB
Posts: 11
Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

I have a set of cragar ss wheels but the bolt pattern is 5 on 5". Can you drill or file the holes a bit to make it 5 on 4.75"??? They fit on the car but you cant put the lugs on properly. Anyone done this before?

1968 Camaro 350, turbo 350, 3000 stall, 8.5" 4:56, 1988 Iroc convertible
Will Speedy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 21st, 10, 09:55 PM
Senior Tech
JAY
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: TUCSON AZ
Posts: 726
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

I don't think thats a good Idea. The more metal you remove the better possible chance of breaking...J


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

66 SS Chevyll
67 Elcamino
68 Malibu 2dr
69 Camaro Convertible
JAYARTER is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 21st, 10, 09:58 PM
Senior Tech
Steps
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 13,316
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

NO!!!
If doing so you need to machine slotted wheels..
Sloted cragers come with their own locating wahes....Even so they do not centralise the wheels everytime.
The way to centralise slotted wheels is to intially use tapered stud bolts and carefully tighten up in the slots so the wheel then centers but not to tight.
Then one by one remove and replace with the matching wheel nuts and washers...and torque up.

As you can see even with factory machined sloted mags the can and often do give issues with centraling...

If one paints drum hubs, just the thickness of the paint can cause vibrations...where the wheel binds to the hub needs to be cleaned off for steel to steel contact....

While here, another common issue is the balance plate on the drum, and the mag not quite fitting around it....espec cragars.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Steptoe is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 03:35 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Matt
 
8ballracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 1,091
Garage
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

Will

Welcome to Team Camaro.....I agree with the above "NO's" do not try and elongate as the accuracy of such work would have to be spot on and even then the engineering of the wheel may be compromised......A small error can result in a fracture or vibration and the lost of a lug or worst the possible loss of wheel.

Would be best to just sell and shop up a new set of rims..... Sorry, not what you want to here but safety first....

8 Ball Racing
Member #120
1969 X77 9 E 69 302 M21 Wallace Chevrolet
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1969 RSSS rag top 7 E 69 350 turbo 350
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1969 Triple Blue 10 D 68
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1968 Chevelle 03 A 68
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
8ballracing is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 06:53 AM
DjD
Retired
Dennis
 
DjD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Fortuna, CA
Posts: 26,461
Garage
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Speedy View Post
I have a set of cragar ss wheels but the bolt pattern is 5 on 5". Can you drill or file the holes a bit to make it 5 on 4.75"??? They fit on the car but you cant put the lugs on properly. Anyone done this before?
Find a shop that has the tools to install conical inserts. They will be able to tell you if they can change the bolt pattern using the inserts. I had them installed on 200s wheels to allow for using conical seat lugs instead of one pair being uni-lug and all 4 using sleaved lugs and washers. Here's what one looks like...


...Dennis

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Don't take life so serious, you won't get out alive..."
DjD is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 08:20 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albany Illinois
Posts: 401
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

First I don't understand Steptoes tapered stud thing,washers don't line the wheels up,the nuts do.I think your working with chrome here $$.From the cost point of view I think it would be cheaper to buy the right wheel.

Last edited by Stainless dog; Jun 22nd, 10 at 08:23 AM. Reason: change
Stainless dog is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 09:08 AM
DjD
Retired
Dennis
 
DjD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Fortuna, CA
Posts: 26,461
Garage
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainless dog View Post
First I don't understand Steptoes tapered stud thing,washers don't line the wheels up,the nuts do.I think your working with chrome here $$.From the cost point of view I think it would be cheaper to buy the right wheel.
With uni-lug style wheels they have an oval hole and fit many bolt patterns. There is a sleeve on the lug and an oval shaped washer with a specifically placed hole in it depending on what bolt pattern you have. In essence the washer does position and align the wheel...

I overlooked the "chrome" in all this but it does play a big role, the wheels would have to have some significant meaning to the owner to persue this... How much would it cost to re-chrome a wheel?

...Dennis

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Don't take life so serious, you won't get out alive..."
DjD is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 09:17 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albany Illinois
Posts: 401
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

I beg to differ. No sleeve on crager lug nuts.The nuts are same size as slot width.P.S.I've had cragers with offset washers but I don't think they do the line up but just put even pressure on the wheel if pattern is not in center of slot.

Last edited by Stainless dog; Jun 22nd, 10 at 09:27 AM. Reason: add
Stainless dog is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 11:00 AM
Moderator
Guess
 
HwyStarJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New Taxes York
Posts: 15,364
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

My uni-lug Cragars use 'nuts' with a long shank that go deep through the openings and locate the wheel as I put them on. Is that what you mean?
And the washers are round, not oval... and the lugs end up in the center of the slots.
Work like a charm.

*---------------------------------*


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

HwyStarJoe is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 11:24 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
John
 
Vintage 68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Moraga,Ca.,USA
Posts: 13,705
Wink Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

Yes, Cragar used just a slot with a sleeved lug-nut and the shoulder of the nut was 'supposed' to triangulate the location and mount the wheel in the correct location for multiple patterns - the system sucked
The run-out is terrible on most of them.
If the backing plate is at all dirty or off the the wheel will never seat right and they are prone to comming loose.
Most sanctioning bodies outlawed them a long time ago.

American, Keystone, Western and other's used the 'washer' system to locate the correct pattern for multi-pattern wheels.

1968 Convertible
Some trucks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Other V8 things - some of which float
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Other V6 things - none of which float
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Oh yeah, and 1 "Straight-Six" ...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If a man says something in the garage - and his wife can't hear him - is he still wrong !!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Vintage 68 is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 01:01 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albany Illinois
Posts: 401
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

Backing plate?
Stainless dog is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 02:30 PM
Senior Tech
Steps
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 13,316
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

Quote:
First I don't understand Steptoes tapered stud thing,
the tapers fit down onto the hole...as each is added and each tightened evenly the wheel moves to siut the taper on each hole...so long as the tighning sequence is done lttle by little....just enough to hold the wheel centered but not enough to damage the top edges.
The crager waskes in therory should fit neat between the the ting locating lumps on the wheel...they dont there is a couple thou movement.
Like I said 9 times out of 10 they will locate the wheel...the other time you end up with a slight vibration..like a wheel thrown a weight...and cant find.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Steptoe is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 03:30 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
John
 
Vintage 68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Moraga,Ca.,USA
Posts: 13,705
Red face Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainless dog View Post
Backing plate?

Sorry - should have said 'backing plane' ...
If the brake drum or Rotor surface the wheel sits against is slightly warped, dirty or damaged then the wheel mounting flange will not sit right and it will move and loosen while driving.
Cragar issued a warning letter to purchaser and it was posted in many speed-shops I went into back-in-the-day ...

We used to pull the drums or rotors and wire brush the mount surface clean before installing the wheels.

They later changed the design to the "Uni-Lug" system that used the same basic wheel slot and lug-nut design - but, they machined the back of the wheel to take a die-cast 'locator' ring for the given bolt circle pattern - the ring helps keep the wheel centered on the lug pattern and not have to rely on the lugs to center and retain the wheel.
Good luck finding any of the 'rings' for older sets of wheels - most of them broke in use or got lost over the years ...

1968 Convertible
Some trucks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Other V8 things - some of which float
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Other V6 things - none of which float
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Oh yeah, and 1 "Straight-Six" ...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If a man says something in the garage - and his wife can't hear him - is he still wrong !!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Vintage 68 is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 04:20 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albany Illinois
Posts: 401
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

Thanks for the info.I wonder why they haven't done away with this slot system on the ss cragers? I agree it sucks. I understand you steptoe{although sometimes it's hard}LOL. Tommorrow I'm putting the car on the lift and dial indicate my cragers just to see how far they are out.I don't have any problem with them but I'm curious to see what I get for readings.
Stainless dog is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 22nd, 10, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
Will
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alix, AB
Posts: 11
Re: Elongating the bolt holes on Cragars

I'm not hereing a lot of "yeah go ahead it's just a 1/4 inch difference"
I'm just so pissed at myself for not noticeing they were 5on5 not 4-3/4. I got them used and they were advertised as such(4-3/4). They were in such incredible shape my eyes just lit up and I went home with them. That was 2 years ago. They have been sitting in my garage covered up since. Was going to put them on my 80 z28 but i just got my 68 and they scream for cragars. The 14" rallies do nothing for me.

1968 Camaro 350, turbo 350, 3000 stall, 8.5" 4:56, 1988 Iroc convertible
Will Speedy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome