New Wheels, New Issues...? - Team Camaro Tech
Wheels & Tires What fits what?

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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 07:07 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation New Wheels, New Issues...?

I finally got around to replacing all of my suspension (front and back). I went with the following:

-Hotchkis 2" lowering coil springs
-Hotchkis 1.5" lowering leafs
-Hellwig front and rear sway bars
-Varishock QS1s front and rear
-SC&C Stage 2 Plus
-All new Moog steering components (pitman arm, idler arm, etc.)

Late last fall I had purchased some 18" Torque Thrust 2s (18x8 w/4.75" bs for the front, and 18x9.5 w/5.5" bs for the rear). I had a local shop measure the front and rear (passenger side only , my mistake...) to make sure they would both fit. Once they gave me the "thumbs up" I placed the order.

Over the past 2 weekends, I replaced all of the suspension and went to put the new rims and tires on (I was soooo excited)...but then the worst possible thing happened...the rears didn't fit. Here are some pictures:

Passenger Side:


Driver Side:


As you can see, I have some problems.

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but on the passenger side, the outside of the tire is dead even with the edge of the fender lip. On the drivers side, the outside of the tire is even with the trim screws (about halfway into the fender lip).

The quarter panels have both been replaced by the car's previous owner, and they did a terrible job, especially on the driver's side. The tires are 275s...

What are my options? I don't have the money right now to order new rims, so I would prefer to make these work. I am open to trimming/rolling the fender lips, but I don't think that would make the driver's side work...

Do you guys think that a 255 series tire would help me out?

I am open to all suggestions. I know it is my fault that I didn't have the shop measure both sides prior to ordering them, so please take it easy on me.

I really appreciate all of your help! I need some smart ideas on this one...

Thanks,

James

Last edited by CamaroMan469; May 27th, 14 at 07:22 AM.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 07:49 AM
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

if it's the installation of the quarters you don't have many options except for some smaller tires or wheels with some more backspacing to bring them in some.

Is your rear centered? Doesn't look like it would help much, but if the whole thing went over to the passenger side 1/4" or so, would it make it any better? There's definitely some adjustment in the front spring cups.

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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

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Originally Posted by blue89bird View Post
if it's the installation of the quarters you don't have many options except for some smaller tires or wheels with some more backspacing to bring them in some.

Is your rear centered? Doesn't look like it would help much, but if the whole thing went over to the passenger side 1/4" or so, would it make it any better? There's definitely some adjustment in the front spring cups.
Thanks for the reply!

The rear end is a brand new DTS 12-bolt, and no it is not perfectly centered. It is slightly off center toward the driver's side. When I had the alignment done, the tech said that the rear was tracking perfectly straight though. I also did some cross measurements, and the body is square on the chassis (+/- 1/4").

I don't think that an extra 1/4" toward the passenger side would help too much. I think it would start creating issues over there.

I'm trying to decide whether a 255 tire would help or not...I know a 255 would be around 0.4" skinnier, so I might gain around 0.2" on each side. That may help a bit, but I don't know if the combination of that and a fender trim/roll would be enough...
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 08:29 AM
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

I'm not a wheel expert or engineer, but it may also be possible to take the driver side wheel to a machine shop and have them put it on the lathe and machine the mounting pad down some to add some backspacing.

I've got no idea what that would do to the strength of the wheel, but if it's thick enough, I don't see what 1/8 or 1/4" would do. Combine that with rolling the rear quarters and maybe a bit smaller wheel and you'd probably have more then enough space.

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Anyone else have some good ideas?
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 02:08 PM
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroMan469 View Post
Thanks for the reply!

The rear end is a brand new DTS 12-bolt, and no it is not perfectly centered. It is slightly off center toward the driver's side. When I had the alignment done, the tech said that the rear was tracking perfectly straight though. I also did some cross measurements, and the body is square on the chassis (+/- 1/4").

I don't think that an extra 1/4" toward the passenger side would help too much. I think it would start creating issues over there.

I'm trying to decide whether a 255 tire would help or not...I know a 255 would be around 0.4" skinnier, so I might gain around 0.2" on each side. That may help a bit, but I don't know if the combination of that and a fender trim/roll would be enough...
I think your math is a little off. 20mm is almost .8", so you would pick up about .4" per side. If you combine that with centering the rear (moving it .25" towards the passenger side), then you will pick up roughly .65" on the drivers side and .15" on the passenger side. That should help quite a bit.

Take a straight edge and line it up with the outside of the tire. Put a temporary mark on your fender lip, then put another mark .65" in and see if that's enough clearance for you. You can do the same on the passenger side, with the second mark .15" in and see if it looks symmetrical.


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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 02:11 PM
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Also, what brand are those tires, and what's the section width? (275/??/18)


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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Rally View Post
I think your math is a little off. 20mm is almost .8", so you would pick up about .4" per side. If you combine that with centering the rear (moving it .25" towards the passenger side), then you will pick up roughly .65" on the drivers side and .15" on the passenger side. That should help quite a bit.

Take a straight edge and line it up with the outside of the tire. Put a temporary mark on your fender lip, then put another mark .65" in and see if that's enough clearance for you. You can do the same on the passenger side, with the second mark .15" in and see if it looks symmetrical.
When I get the car back from the transmission shop I will try this. I'm not familiar with "centering" the rear end. What do you adjust to move it to the passenger side?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Rally View Post
Also, what brand are those tires, and what's the section width? (275/??/18)
The tire is a Cooper RS3-S and the size is 275/40/18.

Thanks so much for your help! You have given me hope!
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 02:58 PM
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Second that Brent, if you have room to move it to the passenger side why not at least try that first.

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty68 View Post
Second that Brent, if you have room to move it to the passenger side why not at least try that first.
How do I go about moving it to the passenger side? Is there adjustment in the front spring perches?

Here is how it sits now:

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 03:52 PM
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Since the rear end is positioned on the leaf springs you would have to determine why the rear is not centered under the car. It's either the springs are not positioned correctly, or the perches on the axle tubes are not mounted in the right place. There is also a chance the quarters are not mounted exactly right and the rear is centered and square to the frame rails. There is no adjustability built in, everything has to be square when you bolt it all into place.

Any time you try to push the envelope with wheels and tires the car has to be perfect on top of and around them.

Forgetting the math and just looking at the pictures I don't think splitting the difference and centering the rear end will solve any problems with those tires and wheels.

My suggestion is start making sure you got what you paid for spec wise. Measure the wheels, width and backspacing... Measure the rear housing, axle flange to axle flange and on center from perch to perch. Also measure the wheel houses, do you have the same room from fender lip to frame rail on each side?

Once you know what you are working with then you can come up with an action plan... I think your car is a '68 so with the round wheel wells you might be able to work the ride height and suspension so the fender never drops down onto the tire. You might be able to swap to a 275/35/18 it's an inch shorter than the 275/40/18 and would give you 1/2" extra clearance below the fender lip. 255/35/18 is about 1 1/2" shorter and about 1" narrower in section width...

I have to ask, what does the inside clearance look like? If you have room and the wheels have thick pads you might be able to have the pads machined a little for extra back spacing.

...Dennis

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 04:34 PM
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DjD View Post
Forgetting the math and just looking at the pictures I don't think splitting the difference and centering the rear end will solve any problems with those tires and wheels.
My suggestion was to split the difference and go with a narrower tire. That should make a difference. I would check the backspacing just to make sure you got the right wheels.


However, as Dennis said, the rear really isn't adjustable per se. You can check the front leaf spring pockets to make sure they are positioned correctly. If the bolts weren't tight, one or both could have twisted/shifted. It wouldn't take much to move 1/4" to one side.

Another consideration is to make sure all suspension parts were torqued down with the full weight on the wheels. If anything was tightened while the suspension was not loaded, it could sit uneven causing the car to shift to one side.

Since everything is new, the shackles shouldn't be bent and the leafs shouldn't be twisted (either of those could cause a shifted rear). One last thing is to check to make sure the rear leaf centering pin is seated in hole in the spring perch. That would certainly cause the rear to shift to one side.


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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Rally View Post
My suggestion was to split the difference and go with a narrower tire. That should make a difference. I would check the backspacing just to make sure you got the right wheels.


However, as Dennis said, the rear really isn't adjustable per se. You can check the front leaf spring pockets to make sure they are positioned correctly. If the bolts weren't tight, one or both could have twisted/shifted. It wouldn't take much to move 1/4" to one side.

Another consideration is to make sure all suspension parts were torqued down with the full weight on the wheels. If anything was tightened while the suspension was not loaded, it could sit uneven causing the car to shift to one side.

Since everything is new, the shackles shouldn't be bent and the leafs shouldn't be twisted (either of those could cause a shifted rear). One last thing is to check to make sure the rear leaf centering pin is seated in hole in the spring perch. That would certainly cause the rear to shift to one side.
I will make sure to measure the backspacing on the wheels when I get the car back. I made sure that all of the suspension components were tightened while the car was on its wheels, a full load. The rear leaf centering pin was correctly placed inside of the lower mount hole as well.

I will double check everything and make sure that all of the new pieces are what I paid for too.

The different tire option may be the next thing to try...

I'll keep everyone posted.

If anyone else has some more ideas, let me know!!
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 05:46 PM
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Here's a thought, if nothing else works. How much are two new tires going to cost? Can you just buy one new wheel for the drivers side with a little more back spacing and keep the 275's?


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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old May 27th, 14, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New Wheels, New Issues...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Rally View Post
Here's a thought, if nothing else works. How much are two new tires going to cost? Can you just buy one new wheel for the drivers side with a little more back spacing and keep the 275's?
I bought the tires locally, and they have zero miles in them. Hopefully they'll just exchange then for me, maybe for a small restocking fee.

I could buy just one new rim for around $350, but I'm not sure if that's the best solution...
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