Centering rings - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 06, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Noel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Centering rings

I'm looking for some input from anyone with tire/rim and vibration hunting experience. I have been chasing down runout problems/vibrations and have had 3 rims replaced by American Racing. They have stood by their product well. The issue has been runout, with differences between the hub and the bolt circle not being concentric. With a rim that is supposed to be lug-centered, is there any problem using centering rings? That would surely make the wheel hub and the axle true to each other. Just looking for some input on this one. Thanks.

Noel

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Tornado Red '69 Camaro ZZ383, 700R4, LS1 brakes, 17" TTII's
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 06, 05:33 AM
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Re: Centering rings

I would think that if you used hub centering rings on a wheel that is designed to be lug-centric then there is a chance that the studs could be bent when the lug nuts are tightened down or possibly rim damage. Is the problem only on one corner of the car or doesn't it matter?
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 06, 07:03 AM
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Re: Centering rings

Sometimes a slight vibration can be very hard to find. 1st have you tried another set of wheels and tires to make sure that's where the problem is coming from? Next are you sure it's the wheels and not the tires or more specific 1 tire? I know this sounds obivious but if this is driving you crazy don't overlook anything. Were the wheels and tires road forced balanced? If they were that still does't mean it can't be a tire with a flat spot. Everything we have been led to believe is road force balance is the bottom line on balance and run out but it may not be. I recently had an expierence with a flat spotted tire and it did not pick it up 2xs. Replaced the tire vibration gone. Hope this helps.

Jack

Last edited by JV69z/28rs; Nov 23rd, 06 at 07:05 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 06, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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Noel
 
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Re: Centering rings

Guys,

Thanks for the replies! I'm actually replacing all 4 tires with the new Falken 615's. Have them already. The old ones were road force balanced twice. It was mentioned that there might be a flat spot on one tire. I am more concerned with the hub runout of one rim. It's visible to the eye at the hub. I replaced the axles with new Superiors, so the run out shouldn't be with the bolt circle of the axle itself.

I did some searches on the hub-centric rings and it seems they are used to eliminate any runout issues with the bolt circle on lug-centric rims. I also managed to chat yesterday with the main Canadian guy at American Racing. He was good to run this by and didn't seem to have any issues with using the rings to make sure eveything was true. He said to see the dealer here in my town they deal with and let him get the right rings and balance the tires. I will try the first time with just a regular balance and go road force if that doesn't correct everything. This wouldn't be an issue at all if I kept to the posted limits but I do want to try autocross with the car in the Spring.

l1tech, my biggest question was also the stressing of the studs. But maybe .025 overall isn't much of a sideways pull? I don't know. Again, thanks for the input!

Noel

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Tornado Red '69 Camaro ZZ383, 700R4, LS1 brakes, 17" TTII's
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 06, 07:06 AM
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Re: Centering rings

Center rings can often cure odd vibration issues.

I'm not sure about wheels being designed as "lug-centric". That indicates the hubs/lugs on the car are also 'lug-centric'. I think that is a reach.

Does front-to-back rotation change the vibration at all? What is the vibration? Steering wheel, floor, etc.?

Scott from NJ. Stay thirsty, my friends


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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 06, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Noel
 
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Re: Centering rings

Scott,

The vibration comes through the floor and it's bad enough at 80+ that there is some transfer to the wheel as well. The TT2's are centered to the axle by only the lugs and there was some varience between the bolt circle and the hub itself. That's why AR took this one rear rim back. Leads me to believe that if the rim is positioned on the axle by centering rings that any bolt circle variance won't be an issue. That's what I'm thinking. I can't put the rears on the front to try it as they are 275/40/17's. Thanks for the comments!

Noel

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 06, 10:15 AM
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Re: Centering rings

Try different rims/tires just for test purposes and see if it changes. If so, then put one at a time back on to see which one it is. It's just a test ride, it will be ok it mix & match.

No change? Then you ruled out tires/rims.

I will say, sometimes the vib can change just loosening & tightening the wheel back up. So it can be hard.

Scott from NJ. Stay thirsty, my friends


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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 06, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Noel
 
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Re: Centering rings

Thanks Scott,
Part of the problem is I have LS1 brakes on all 4 corners and it's a bit of a problem getting spares to just test. Wish I could! Talked with the AR rep again and they say the TT2's aren't machined for centering rings... I could gamble on my own measurements and go from there. Wish there were someone close with a similar setup I could swap wheels with.

Noel

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 06, 01:11 PM
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Re: Centering rings

You might try to use a dial indicator on the rim to check runout at the tire/rim interface. Know any machininsts? You could borrow one. The dial indicator will tell you how bad the run-out actually is, or perhaps isn't.

The stack-up tolerances would likely be a problem if you try to use an adapter to go hub-centric on a wheel designed to be lug-centered. The hub of a lug centered rim may not be toleranced concentric enough with the machined lug holes.

Hub-centric is the best mounting method, to bad aftermaket wheel vendors had to shy away from it. The worst of all was the old uni-lug Cragars.... AAAARRRGGGHH! The only way to balance them was to find sombody who had one of those balancers that actually balanced to rim/wheel assembly when it was on the car. All of those balancing machines are probably either trashed or in the henry Ford Museum.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 06, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Centering rings

I do have a dial indicator and have had the thing in use many times trying to get to the bottom of the problem. I had my new Falkens 615's mounted and balanced yesterday. The runout and balance seems pretty good from the hub on the balancer. Took it home again and checked another of the rims on the bad side. It's still visibly off to the axle hub but not nearly as bad as it was with the rim AR replaced... So, i took some quick measurements on my new Superior axles, hub to stud. I get 18mm on 2, 19mm on 2 and 19.5mm on one. That's .059" difference throughout the hub. I think for the price of a hub ring I am going to see if that corrects the problem. I did email Superior to see what their tolerances are, haven't heard back yet. Trying a hub ring seems easier than redoing the axles. I do remember the Cragars! After building this car I appreciate the tolerances of a lot of the OEM stuff. Thanks for the input.
Noel

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