502, 427 03 396?? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 07, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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502, 427 03 396??

Im going to be building a 69 Camaro and dont know what motor is best. I love the 502.. but the cost is a little extreme. I want somethign reliable.. but if i pull up to a corvette zo6 i want to smoke his ***.. what motor and what mods would it take to do that ..396, 427 or the 502???
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 07, 10:55 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

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Originally Posted by Bradscamro67 View Post
Im going to be building a 69 Camaro and dont know what motor is best. I love the 502.. but the cost is a little extreme. I want somethign reliable.. but if i pull up to a corvette zo6 i want to smoke his ***.. what motor and what mods would it take to do that ..396, 427 or the 502???
If you want to smoke a Z06 you'll need all of the 502 and then some. If you happen to catch a Granny driving her son's car, it might be easier, but there are stock Z06's running in the 10's with good tires.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 07, 11:44 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

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Originally Posted by Bradscamro67 View Post
Im going to be building a 69 Camaro and dont know what motor is best. I love the 502.. but the cost is a little extreme. I want somethign reliable.. but if i pull up to a corvette zo6 i want to smoke his ***.. what motor and what mods would it take to do that ..396, 427 or the 502???
It is sad this day in age but the likely event of you beating a Z06 is slim. Not only are they a 427 small block (less weight), but it's even more so how they get the power to the pavement so damn easily. You can build more power but then you will have to work for the Webber CO. cuz all you'll be making is "road charcol". This is why they tend to get rated the best power-to-dollar car on the market!!!!!
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 07, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

They are amazingly fast.. guess i was just dreaming!!! haha sorry
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 07, 10:59 PM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

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Originally Posted by onovakind67 View Post
If you want to smoke a Z06 you'll need all of the 502 and then some. If you happen to catch a Granny driving her son's car, it might be easier, but there are stock Z06's running in the 10's with good tires.
There probably are some running in the 10's, high 10's, but damn few. You would have to milk every last ounce out of the car to even see low 11's let alone high 10's. So if you have great tires on a good surface, yeah, I could see 10's with a damn good driver, but 9 of 10 guys driving these things would be real lucky to see mid high 11's, I would be willing to put money on that.
If you can't beat the average joe vette owner in a dragrace with a 3200# Camaro, a 502 and decent tires, somethings wrong. With a 502 cube motor, assuming it's lightly warmed over, you can easily and reliably get 1.25 horse per cube, and if you have a guy that just knows how to drive, you damn better see 10's. So OK, once in a blue moon a guy will give you a race with his new Z06, but it's the exception, not the rule.
Nothing against the vette, its a bad to the bone, 70K $ car, and kudos to Chevy for sticking with it, but it's not the "mythical creature" some make it out to be. IMO of course

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 05:44 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

I would see it as the other way around. The average guy slapping a 502 in his Camaro probably won't see low 12's, my neighbors 502 Camaro ran a best of 12.6 @ 119 and I would consider him an average rodder. Put that up against an average Z06.
If you're going to pull up in a leaf-spring nose-heavy drag Camaro against a traction controlled modern balanced chassis at a typical oily intersection and expect to keep up, I think you're dreaming.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 06:20 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

To answer your question of wich eng. to choose. The 502 will make the most power and 68rs406 is right. You can make 1.25 H.P. easily on pump gas. As for the second part of your statement wanting to beat a ZO6, you need traction. So you need tire = mini tubs and if you are willing to cut the floors a nice 4 link. If not the solution is Caltracs. They really work if you install a 12.5 tire you can get a 1.25 60 foot time. Also with the 502 choose aluminum heads to help with the weight distribution. You will want to lighten the nose like onovakind67 says. Your goal is atainable it will just take money and work. If you go with the Caltracs you will need the best shocks you can get. The bottom line is if you build a whole car with a tuned chassis and a tire as big or even better bigger than the vet. You will beat the vet. Its been done before if you go to your local track enough you will see street Camaros running in the 10 sec. zone all day.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 07:47 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

...then you come to the chicane at the end of the track an the Vette shows its real strength.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 08:05 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

Hey did you see mikes565 Camaro. I would ask him how he holds up against a ZO6? If he only had a Viper 6 speed.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 09:36 AM
 
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

OK, per D2k AND I know it is a sim program, my about $38 to $4,000, 550 hp at 5500 rpm and 580 t at 4500 rpm 9.8 to 1 CR. 496 should do per ANOTHER sim. program DRAG, 10.5 seconds in the quarter at 130 mph with a weight of 3400 pounds, aggresive driver, my M-20, 3.31's and GOOD tires IF I don't break anything and it is set up to hook to the hilt!!

So go from there..............

I will be tickled to death with an 11.00!!..

pdq67

Cast-iron Merlin 2.19"/1.88" large oval heads, CC 282S solid cam, a tuned 3310-2 750 cfm Holley on their Strip Dom. sdingle plane intake and 1.75" dia., 4-tube, long headers open is all so play around with the sim. programs AND watch the engine combination trends b/c they will help imho....

Note, NOTHING fancy at all and I figure onna UDHarold's CC 288AR copy solid lifter cams will put me above 625 hp EASY..........



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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 10:34 PM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

Quote:
Originally Posted by onovakind67 View Post
I would see it as the other way around. The average guy slapping a 502 in his Camaro probably won't see low 12's, my neighbors 502 Camaro ran a best of 12.6 @ 119 and I would consider him an average rodder. Put that up against an average Z06.
If you're going to pull up in a leaf-spring nose-heavy drag Camaro against a traction controlled modern balanced chassis at a typical oily intersection and expect to keep up, I think you're dreaming.
Guess we'll have a difference in opinion on this then.....
So you think the number of guys buying nearly 80k$ Z06 vettes that can drive them out number guys with an old Camaro (that build 502s for them) that can drive them? I'm going to have to say no.
If somebody builds a 502 Camaro and puts "good tires" on it (gotta keep it fair) and can't get into the 11's, they should look up a new hobby IMO... The average car guys that test the new cars get high 11's with the vettes, at a track by the way. Traction control does help, but don't forget it doesn't create traction on the road, just slows the car down to get traction, so thats not the magic answer either, though it would substantially help the inexperienced driver obviously.
My smallblock powered stock suspension, PS, PB, street car runs 11.40's on the rallyes and radials it drives on regularly and I'll gladly line up to a new ZO6 vette, if he beats me then fine, but 9 out of 10 times it won't happen, IMO. If it's corners we're are worried about, I have about 15K$ in my car, not including tax and license on a new ZO6, that leaves me about 65K$ to make it out handle the vette, I think I could work that out.....
I like the vettes, don't get me wrong, I just tire of the attitude people have toward them, as though they walk on water. I would choose the look of my Camaro over one, and people that buy them must want the vettes too, so to each their own I guess.

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 07, 10:56 PM
 
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

Well said 68!!

Why do you think I posted the sim. program info. that I ran on my car..

And it's already been proven over at P/T and C/C'ers that we can make our old cars road run VERY WELL for a lot less money than the fancy new 'Vette!!

Heck, I'd put the '69 Big Red Camaro up against about any less than $125,000 car in the world that is licensed and a true car, not an exotic one-off hand-built jobber even tho Big Red just about is one itself.....

pdq67



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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 07, 06:18 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

I know a few stout smallblocks around here N/A and running 10's, and the bigblock guys are 9's easily all day (477ci-565ci) and these guys come out on the streets to the local hangouts but then theres one Nova with a blower in the 8's and street driven also.
The above are just some reasons a Z-06 would have problems with a big or small block and if you added power adders like the Nova it's not even a fair fight and it doesn't have to be a bigblock

68 Camaro~LSx ~all motor
1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 07, 06:22 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

Also they sell kits where you could join them and run the same LSX motor and 6spd tranny they are

68 Camaro~LSx ~all motor
1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 07, 07:43 AM
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Re: 502, 427 03 396??

Sounds like and episode of pinks. For about the same money as the ZZ502 you could pick up a nice 540. Then all you have to figure out is how to get the 750+ HP to the ground. Big blocks are just like kids at school; no mater how big and bad you are there is always somebody bigger and badder. You have to remember to pick on somebody your own size.

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