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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 07, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Desktop Dyno Request

Does anyone have a desktop dyno that they would be willing to use to run some numbers for me?

I am upgrading my 350 and want to check the combo I have in mind. Here are the specs:

Crate 350 w/cast flat top pistons; 4.00" Bore, 3.47" stroke
Edelbrock Dual plane intake (2101)
Vortec Heads (906/062 Castings); 64cc; 1.94/1.50 Valves

Lunati Cam 60101 (Hyd flat tappet)
-Duration at .050 inch lift: int 213/exh 219
-Advertised Duration: 256 int/262 exh
-Valve Lift Ratio: .454 int/.468 exh lift
-LSA:112

Edelbrock 1406 600 CFM carb
1 5/8' inch ceramic headers
Moser 12-bolt posi 3:73 Rear
TH350 Transmission
TCI 1800 stall torque convertor

Advice, suggestions, criticism or wit welcome. Thanks all.

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

Anyone?...

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 11:21 AM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

3.47" stroke? I used 3.48"

RPM·······&#183 ;···1500····200 0····2500···&#1 83;3000····3500··&#1 83;·4000····4500·&#1 83;··5000····5500&#1 83;···6000
Brake_Tq······284&#1 83;····313···&# 183;·337·····353&#18 3;····357···&#1 83;·358·····345&#183 ;····321···&#18 3;·277·····226
Brake_HP······81.2&# 183;···119····& #183;160·····202·&#1 83;···238····&# 183;272·····296·&#18 3;···306····&#1 83;291·····258
Exh_Pres······.2&#18 3;·····.3··&#18 3;···.5····&#18 3;·.8······1.2& #183;····1.6··· ··2.0·····2.4&# 183;····2.6···& #183;·2.8
Int_Vacuum····.2··&# 183;···.5····&# 183;·.6······.6 ······.6·· ····.6···· ··.7······ .9······1.0·&#1 83;···1.0
Vol_Eff_%·····69.9&#1 83;···74.2····7 8.8····83.6···& #183;86.7····89.2··& #183;·89.9····89.2·& #183;··85.3····80.6
Actual_CFM····114··& #183;··162····· 215·····273··&# 183;··331·····3 89·····441··&#1 83;··486·····51 1·····527
Fuel_Flow·····41.8·& #183;··59.1····78.4& #183;···99.8···&#183 ;121·····142··& #183;··161····· 178·····187··&# 183;··193
A/F_Mix_Qal···99.5···& #183;100.0···100.0··&#183 ;100.0···100.0···100 .0···100.0···100.0&# 183;··100.0···100.0
BSFC·······&#18 3;··.515····.496&#18 3;···.489····.4 95····.508···&# 183;.522····.545··&# 183;·.580····.643·&# 183;··.746
BSAC·······&#18 3;··6.455···6.222·&# 183;·6.139···6.210·· ·6.369···6.543··&#18 3;6.838···7.277···8. 064···9.359
Friction_HP···12···& #183;··19·····& #183;29······40&#183 ;·····53··&#183 ;···70····&#183 ;·91······118&# 183;····148···& #183;·185
Mach_#·······&# 183;.139····.186··&# 183;·.232····.279·&# 183;··.325····.372&# 183;···.418···· .464····.511··· ·.557
Piston_Spd····870··& #183;··1160····1450& #183;···1740···&#183 ;2030····2320··&#183 ;·2610····2900·&#183 ;··3190····3480
Piston_Gs·····145·&# 183;···258····& #183;403·····581·&#1 83;···790····&# 183;1032····1306··&# 183;·1613····1952·&# 183;··2323
Overlap_%VE···-1.7····-1.5····-1.1····-.7·····-.7·····-.5·····-.4·····-.4·····-.5·····-.5
Int_AvgVel····94··&# 183;···125····& #183;157·····188·&#1 83;···219····&# 183;251·····282·&#18 3;···313····&#1 83;345·····376
In_InertiaPrs·.0····&#183 ;·.4······.9&#1 83;·····1.4··&# 183;··1.9·····2 .1·····2.2··&#1 83;··2.0·····1. 8·····1.5
In_ResTunPrs··0.0···&#183 ;·0.0·····.0·&# 183;····.0···&# 183;··.0·····&# 183;.0······0.0&#183 ;····0.0···&#18 3;·0.0·····0.0
Ex_AvgVel·····99·&#1 83;····132···&# 183;·165·····198&#18 3;····231···&#1 83;·264·····297&#183 ;····330···&#18 3;·363·····396
ExTun_Prs·····.7·&#1 83;····.9···&#1 83;··.6·····&#1 83;-.2·····-.3·····-1.0····-1.6····-1.8····-1.6····-1.2
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

Thanks!

So this combo would max out at 358 torque and 306 HP.

I wonder what is holding me back from the 375 to 400hp range...

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 11:45 AM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

oneovakind67, what Compression Ratio did you use to calculate? I didn't see any details about the reliefs on the pistons, head gasket thickness, deck height, to properly graph this engine.

1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:02 PM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentmc View Post
Thanks!

So this combo would max out at 358 torque and 306 HP.

I wonder what is holding me back from the 375 to 400hp range...
A 100 shot of nitrous? If you want to pick up 70 horses without nitrous, find 10 places to add 7 horses each. Things like belt driven accessories, internal friction, windage losses, exhaust system losses/gains, compression, intake air temperature and flow, etc If I take your engine as you've described it and simple change the exhaust system to one that is wave tuned and efficient, the predicted peak power goes up by 28, changing intakes to an RPM picks up another 7, etc.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:13 PM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

Edelbrock 2101? This is designed for pre 87 heads, don't believe its going to fit your Vortec heads
*Not for 1987 and later cast iron or Chevy Bowtie heads. Will fit 1987 and later stock aluminum heads.

Performer Vortec (non-EGR) #2116 on the other hand is designed for Vortec heads, right?

1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:13 PM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

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oneovakind67, what Compression Ratio did you use to calculate? I didn't see any details about the reliefs on the pistons, head gasket thickness, deck height, to properly graph this engine.
There are lots of things missing to 'properly' analyze the engine. I figured on a -7cc piston, 64cc head, .039" gasket, and a .025" deck. Comes out to about 9.5:1. I assumed a stock bottom end with typical windage conditions, stock rod length, production pistons and bearings, belt driven fan and water pump, typical aftermarket dual plane, 1-5/8" x 30" primary tubes with a collector terminated after 8" into a typical 2-1/2" dual exhaust system, cam in at 108 degrees, etc.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:33 PM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lewis View Post
Edelbrock 2101? This is designed for pre 87 heads, don't believe its going to fit your Vortec heads
*Not for 1987 and later cast iron or Chevy Bowtie heads. Will fit 1987 and later stock aluminum heads.

Performer Vortec (non-EGR) #2116 on the other hand is designed for Vortec heads, right?
2116 Worked on on of my applications.

Don
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:39 PM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

onovakind67, what tool are you using to graph?
I used http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html and came up with 9.62:1 for -7cc, 64cc, .039, .025, 4.03 cyl bore size, if I change the bore size to 4.0 its 9.5:1 but wouldn't it be a 4.030 bore size?
If I change it to .015 (1094) head gasket thickness I get 10.16:1

I did a Desktop Dyno 2000, with that same cam at 9.62:1 with small tube headers it comes up with 403 Torque at 3000 and 3500 rpm, and 317hp at 4500 rpm. Mainly curious as to why the curves have different peaks. My torque curve shows 2000-4000 is nearly the same, 396tq - 403tq - 394tq

Adjusting to 10.16:1 compression (different gasket and 4.03 cyl bore) I get 411tq at 3000, 412tq at 3500, 325hp at 4500 and 5000. Torque curve is 403 at 2000 to 403 at 4000 with the 411/412tq in the middle of the curve.

Using a CompCamps 12-234-2 which has an identical duration but slightly different lift and lobe center has nearly the same curve, 401tq at 2000, 414tq at 3500, 406tq at 4000, but a slightly higher hp value of 342hp at 5000 rpm.

1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

Yep--I meant 2116 intake--sorry about that.

The bottom end would remain be stock--this started life as a typical low-end Goodwrench crate motor. I'm only changing the top end (heads, cam, intake, carb, lifters).

The 64cc heads and stock bottom end assumption was correct. What other info can I provide to get this as close as possible?

I can use a different cam--would that significantly change things?
Say a Lunati 60102:
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 219 int./227 exh.
Advertised Duration: 262 int./268 exh.
Lift: 0.468 int./0.489 exh. lift
LSA: 112

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:52 PM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

EA3.2 from Performance Trends. It has a compression calculator built in. The bore is specified at 4.00".
I am not familiar with the methods of calculation for the different products. With EA3.2 you can manipulate the exhaust system in many different ways to affect the power curve, such as primary tube length and diameter, collector length, coupling efficiency, etc. You can also vary the intake runner length to move the torque curve up or down. It must use some type of wave analyzer.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

Brian,

Wow--that is a huge difference between the peak torque and HP (403tq/317hp). Is my planned combo a mess? I had thought it would be prett well balanced and was ready to buy this week. This is a road trip car and it's being built to see the strip at all. I'd still like to build some respectable HP... What should I do?

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 12:54 PM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

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Originally Posted by Brentmc View Post
Yep--I meant 2116 intake--sorry about that.

The bottom end would remain be stock--this started life as a typical low-end Goodwrench crate motor. I'm only changing the top end (heads, cam, intake, carb, lifters).

The 64cc heads and stock bottom end assumption was correct. What other info can I provide to get this as close as possible?

I can use a different cam--would that significantly change things?
Say a Lunati 60102:
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 219 int./227 exh.
Advertised Duration: 262 int./268 exh.
Lift: 0.468 int./0.489 exh. lift
LSA: 112
Things that EA3.2 takes into account:

Bore, stroke, rod length, piston type, ring type, bearing type
any accessories like water pump, fan, power steering, etc
oil pan configuration, windage tray? crankcase vacuum pump? wet sump?
Head type, specifications, modifications, flow numbers if possible, valve sizes, compression ratio
Intake type, modifications, runner length if possible, carb type and cfm
Exhaust system configuration and dimensions
Primary tube size and length, collector size and length, crossover? X-pipe?
Muffler cfm and size
Cam and lifter type, advertised duration, duration @.050, lobe lift, intake lobe installed centerline, lobe separation angle, rocker arm type and ratio
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 07, 01:03 PM
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Re: Desktop Dyno Request

So if we went with a .015 gasket instead of .039 you would go from a 9.5:1 compression to a 10.04:1 compression, assuming the engine has not been bored .030 over (4.030 bore size). Compress is 10.16:1 if bored .030 over

onovakind67, can you recalculate based on the 60102 camshaft? DD2000 gives me at 10.04:1 compression - 404tq at 3500rpm and 340hp at 5000rpm
If I change it to a CompCams 12-234-2 I get 407tq at 3500rpm and 340hp at 5000rpm. At CompCamps 12-238-2 gets me to 404tq at 3500rpm and 346hp at 5000rpm.

1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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