Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question) - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 08, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

I hate to bring this back up, but I cannot get the ticking out of this NEW 454. Here's what I screwed up.

I initially put TOO MUCH cam in this low compression motor.
Rough Idle / sounded good / wife's Vette
It just didn't work well with the T400 auto tranny.

The motor DID NOT TICK.

I swapped the cam-lifters to less cam. I (novice) OVERTIGHTENED the rockers and actually crushed the TOPS of several pushrods.

I replaced the pushrods - rocker arms.

Now this motor is a TORQUE MONSTER...runs great...SMOOTH IDLE.
But it ticks like a poorly adjusted SOLID LIFTER CAM.

Is it possible that I "ruined" the lifters or their mating surface?
Could that be what the ticking is that I cannot adjust out?
I can not isolate it to any particular lifter.

I have verified that it is not the fuel pump rod (new bronze) or an exhaust leak.

I am happy to pull the intake and throw in new lifters, but wanted some opinions before I continue to needlessly bang my head on the wall!

Last edited by 74LS454; Mar 21st, 08 at 07:00 PM.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 08, 07:35 PM
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Dave
 
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Re: Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

I understand your frustration. I have been there a few times with hyd lifters. It seems there's always a small amount of ticking, even after I use new cam and lifters.

I'm wondering if you mighta bent a valve stem or something. By adjusting too tight, you must have forced some of the valves to contact their piston(s), thus ruining the pushrods. Of course, this would put a lot of strain on the rocker and lifter as well.

If this was mine, I'd try adjusting with engine running. Loosen each rocker nut until noticeable tapping, then slowly tighten until quiet, then another half-turn. Perhaps this will reveal the source of the noise. This can be a messy job, but if you cover the oil feed ends of the rockers with tin foil, it will stop most of the mess. I have a set of custom rocker clips made for this purpose, perhaps you (or a buddy) has a set.

Also a chance you coulda wiped cam lobe(s). It doesn't take much to ruin a flat-tappet hyd cam. I would recommend using a dial indicator and checking lift for each lobe. If lobes are all within spec, then perhaps new lifters would cure.

I can't think of a definitive answer here. This needs some investigative work.............

Dave F. in Rhode Island
'68 Camaro SS Accel DFI 454 (SOLD - I'm a boring Corvette owner now)
Bought my first big-block Chevy in 1970
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 08, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

Thanks for the insight....it's a sissy 4.75/4.75-260 equal lift Comp Cam. Hopefully I didn't contact a flat top piston.

The ticking sounds like its deeper inside the motor rather than up at the valve/rocker assemblies. In fact its most noisy with the hood closed. It is louder from underneath than from the top side. I have adjusted the rockers 5 or 6 times using every method I know. This ticking did not start until I mushroomed the original pushrods. Runs great / perfect idle. Tick tick tick .....

Also...the hotter the engine gets...the louder it gets. Thick cold oil...just slight ticking. Hot - thin (Rotella) oil....ticks like CRAZY. I may try new lifters. I can only hope that I crushed a few lifters.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 08, 06:56 AM
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Dave
 
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Re: Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

If you're gonna try new lifters, I would definitely check the cam lobes first!

Ticking noises in a metal engine are amazingly hard to pinpoint. I have a mechanic's stethoscope and it allows terrific audible feedback, but it's tough to say for certain where the noise is coming from.

The last engine job I did was in Spring '06, on my own car. I put in a fresh 468 and within a hundred miles heard a loud ticking, almost EXACTLY as you describe. The roller cam and hyd roller lifters were like new, so I just didn't see how it could be them. I kept checking things and scratching my head, then finally I ended up yanking the intake manifold and the problem was revealed! Like a complete idiot, I had installed two of the lifter pairs backwards, dohhhhhhhhhhhhh, so the rollers were at an angle, which wiped the cam lobes, so I bought new cam and 2 new lifter pairs. All is good now.

I'm thinking you should pull intake, rockers, pushrods and lifters. Examine cam lobes carefully and use dial indicator to confirm each lobe is still within specs (lifter and pushrod in place, indicator mounted on cyl head). Also look hard at all the other parts - rockers, rocker balls, pushrods, etc. If you're using flat tappet, then you'll need to keep lifters matched up to the lobes, assuming you're gonna use same lifters.

-

Dave F. in Rhode Island
'68 Camaro SS Accel DFI 454 (SOLD - I'm a boring Corvette owner now)
Bought my first big-block Chevy in 1970
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 08, 09:52 AM
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Re: Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

and be sure to use plenty of assembly lube!


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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 08, 04:25 PM
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Timothy
 
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Re: Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

A cracked exhaust manifold can also make a ticking noise. What were you running?

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 08, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

Running stock manifolds. I will check for leaks and then probably pull the intake and replace the lifters if I can't find a leak.

On the manifolds......when I removed the originals for the total rebuild, there were NO gaskets. With the rebuild, I installed felpro "medium quality" exhaust manifold gaskets. Should I have just reinstalled them without ANY gaskets. I wonder if there is a leak in one of those ? I will check.

Thanks everyone.....!
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 08, 08:19 PM
 
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Re: Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

I didn't think it was possible to ruin p/r's if the rockers were too tight b/c, imho, all that would happen is that you would bottom the lifters out to solid and then if continued tightening, you would just hold the valves off their seats and it wouldn't run worth a hoot! Sucker should miss and cough bigtime!!

This isn't good, BUT I can't see ruining that much if caught in time!

BUT I'd pull the cam for sure and eye-ball it real GOOD.

Next time set it up using the old spin the p/r's between your thumb and index finger on the base circle cold and then crank her up and set them running the same way warm to do it right.

Guy's I'm right here aren't I?? Please come back and tell me otherwise...

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 08, 08:24 PM
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Levi
 
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Re: Ruined my hyd lifters? (long question)

Ok this is going to sound retarded probably. I had this weird ticking noise awhile ago...so I got a stethascope(sp) and got down to the dirty. Um. Couldnt find anything there so pulled the valve covers nothing was wrong there. Want to know what it turned out to be? The PCV valve deal. Pull yours out and plug it see if it goes away, thats what my ticking noise was lol.
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