Timing Question - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 08, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Timing Question

My 460 big block initial timing is set at 15 degrees adv. Once it gets heated up its hard to start. It has a brand new 3hp high torque starter wrapped also with a remote ford solenoid. Brand new 800 cca battery. I know this is a simple question but im brain farting on this one....i dont think the starter is getting heat soaked....the starter igniton wire is 12awg from the remote solenoid. battery cable is 1 awg coming from the trunk, any thoughts??

Thanks!

68 Camaro RS/SS, 454 BBC,TH400,

Last edited by Atth2o; Mar 26th, 08 at 04:59 PM.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 08, 08:55 PM
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Re: Timing Question

To figure out if it's advance related just put a switch on your ignition and see if it spins with no fire any easier. Or jumper the solenoid. 15° shouldn't be a problem seems to me. I usually try to buy 1000 ish amp batteries. Have you tried jumping it with a 2nd batt when it has the hot symptom?

What CR?

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 08, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Timing Question

u mean when it is HOT and having the problem put a switch on it and leave the key off (if i understand you correctly) right?

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 08, 04:33 AM
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Re: Timing Question

Tim is suggesting to install a switch to open the ign circuit while cranking. This allows the engine to crank over without spark, using the newly installed switch as a "compression release" sorta. With no ignition, starter cranks the engine at a good rate/speed. Once up to crank speed, a couple of seconds, then close the switch to power ignition.

Otherwise, if ignition is too far advanced, the power stroke happens too soon, and with the engine at a slow rpm, kicks back against the starter motor and slows the process down.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 08, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Timing Question

ya a bump switch, I hooked it up to the remote solenoid on the firewall and turned the motor over with the ingition key off. motor spins freely. that 3hp starter spins it strong.
if I turn on the igniton switch you can turn over the motor and start it over and over no problems...the problem happens when its hot...and the other question is the ford solenoid, i thought it was a good I idea, but now I'm hearing diffrent things..is it still that the starter is getting heat soaked even though I have coated headers, the mini toque starter is heat wrapped and I have a remote ford solenoid. I thought all that would fix the heat/starter problem...HELP !!!!..lol

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 08, 07:36 PM
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Re: Timing Question

So, if you hit the bump switch when the engine is hot, ignition off, and it cranks slow, it could be too small of cable wire size from battery to solenoid to starter and from engine block ground to battery negative post. Wire size should be a minimum of 1 AWG. Goes without saying, the contact points of all terminals should be paint free.

Wire does lose its current carrying ability when hot. Same happens to the solenoid contacts, they get hot, and lessens the current carrying ability. Don't forget the starter solenoid contacts also.

Shoot the starter with a temp gun to read how hot it gets. I wouldn't think it should get over 130°F-140°F. If hot, you might cool it with a CO2 fire extinguisher, garden sprayer spray it with water, or blow it with a heat gun on cool. Get it to 100°F and try again. If it cranks over, then the starter is getting heat soaked. The thermal sheeting is not doing any good in protecting from heat soak.

Battery may be too small also.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 08, 08:26 PM
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Re: Timing Question

Do you sense any "kick-back" while cranking?
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 08, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Timing Question

ok so forget the thermal sheeting. what about a metal heat shield? those any good?

I havent tried the test when the motor is hot ill do that and let you know tomorrow

THanks again, talk to you soon

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 08, 09:44 PM
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Re: Timing Question

What cam do you have in this motor. If it isn't too radical you should be able to use a vaccum advance. That will allow your intial to be set a tad lower, but it will advance up to 15-20* once the engine is running.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 08, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Timing Question

The cam is a Crower 292H .503" .529" not too much. Maybe take the initial down to around 8 and change the springs?... I know its at around 36 total now. what should I have the total be around you think?

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 08, 01:39 PM
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Re: Timing Question

I would knock the timing back 10 degrees to 5 BTDC, Take the car for a spin, try starting after it warms up if it still doing the same thing, I would consider the starter heat shield or new starter, if it starts fine bump the timing ahead 2 more degrees and try again, keep doing this until you find the hard start. push the timing back. I always thought 32 degrees total advance was the best.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 08, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Timing Question

do they make heat shields for the mini torque starters

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