Bad lifter? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 08, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Brandon
 
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Unhappy Bad lifter?

Hey guys and gals.

Got me a new ah crap today. For starters it would seem that my car either hates or is strongly jealous of my fiancee`. Just about every time she drives it something goes wrong. Today being no exception. This morning she took her out and experienced a very loud backfire driving down the road after a rough idle at warm up. Then coming back home the engine started to make a "whirring" sound. (according to the fiancee anyhow)
So I get home and start her up. Idle is a bit bogged to begin with but starts to catch on and speed up to a regular idle. As this is going on I'm hearing a slapping sound on the right bank. I shut her off and pull the right valve cover and find #4 exhaust real loose. I bite the bullet and start the engine back up. I see very little oil coming out of the top of the rocker and I hear the tapping sound then put a finger on the rocker. Yup definately #4 exhaust. I shut off the engine and go back to the right bank and can see and feel the lifter bleeding down way faster than it should and more than the others. The rocker going completely loose again.
I had pulled the rod out and it's nice and straight.

So question being, how often does one hyd lifter go bad?


Brandon

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 08, 07:55 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

About as many times as the lobe gets wiped off the cam, turn the engine over and measure the total lift, probably find there is not much,
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 08, 08:32 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

"my car either hates or is strongly jealous of my fiancee"

Sounds like the feeling is probably getting mutual, LOL. Seriously, if the lifter is noticeably bleeding down, then it's possible the lifter is damaged internally. Can you depress the lifter with the pushrod and collapse it, right after you shut down the motor?
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 08, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Brandon
 
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Re: Bad lifter?

Actually Tom, the fiancee` loves driving the car. Just don't think the feeling is mutual.

Don't really have to press down on the rocker at all. I can start it up, listen to the idle change as the lifter pumps up. Feel it being nice and tight when the motors runnig. Shut off the motor and either see the rocker roll back, or if it took me too long to get back to the engine. Move the rocker back and forth with lots of room between the rocker and the rod.

Got a new lifter and gasket set ordered, supposed to be here monday. I'll pull the top off then and pull the lifter and see for sure whats up.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 08, 06:21 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

Lobe? maybe not, you are saying you are able to see this rocker arm bleed off? Get the financee involved here as looks like all three of you will be a happy family. Get her to turn motor off while you are under the hood to observe.

You did not say how old this lifter was but if it was me, before I drop a new lifter down on a old surface, I would take the lifter out and apart, clean well with varsol or spirits, inspect the assemble with AT fluid or Mystery oil and try again. If lifter is bleeding off, the little valve inside must be leaking.
Last resort is a new lifter or lifters and cam.

Don
TC # 349
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 08, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Bad lifter?

Don,

Engine was completely rebuilt 3 years and 12k miles ago. Rotating parts all balanced out. Machine shop said it should easily spin to the 8k range without problem.
Hadn't had any issues with the valves other than adjusting them after 10k. Even then there was almost no adjustment needed other than my personal curiosity.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 08, 06:37 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantooch View Post
Don,

Engine was completely rebuilt 3 years and 12k miles ago. Rotating parts all balanced out. Machine shop said it should easily spin to the 8k range without problem.
Hadn't had any issues with the valves other than adjusting them after 10k. Even then there was almost no adjustment needed other than my personal curiosity.
If me , I would do what I said, messing with this too much could lead to another cam. I have cheated and installed one new lifter on an old cam but this was on the older GM cams. I am not sure you could do that today but worth a gamble when you run out of alternatives. I guess you have back off totally and relashed.

Don
TC # 349
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 08, 07:43 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

I'd replace the one lifter and do a typical the break-in procedure (2200 + rpm for 20 minutes, cam break-in lube, etc.). No point in risking the other cam lobes, by replacing the good lifters. The fact that the lifter pumps up when engine is running tells me that the lifter is internally damaged and not sludged up. Cool that your wife actually likes your car, keep her happy, she's a rare find.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 08, 03:49 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

The cam is already broken in. There is no break in cycle needed again and nothing special to do but put a new lifter in. You could change the one lifter and see if it helps. Most hydraulic lifters are the same so I wouldn't worry. Just don't get an anti-pump lifter if all the others aren't.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 08, 03:52 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17 View Post
If me , I would do what I said, messing with this too much could lead to another cam. I have cheated and installed one new lifter on an old cam but this was on the older GM cams. I am not sure you could do that today but worth a gamble when you run out of alternatives. I guess you have back off totally and relashed.
What has changed in lifter design??? They are as they always have been an .842" body with a flat round face. If anything they have better retainer clips to retain the plungers.

The cam break in is for the cam lobes not the lifters. You may get a slight wear pattern on the lifter but it is negligable. There is nothing wrong with putting all new lifters in with a little assembly lube and call it good.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 08, 07:35 AM
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Re: Bad lifter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lluciano77 View Post
The cam is already broken in. There is no break in cycle needed again and nothing special to do but put a new lifter in. You could change the one lifter and see if it helps. Most hydraulic lifters are the same so I wouldn't worry. Just don't get an anti-pump lifter if all the others aren't.
The new lifter has to be broken in with the cam lobe. Both parts wear together, so you would put the lobe at serious risk by just dropping in a new lifter without a new break-in cycle.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 08, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Bad lifter?

Well, got the new lifters delivered today. So went through the pita and pulled all that I had too. Got the lifter out and found the riding surface pitted (dished in) about 1/8" and a noticable lean to it. Lubed up a new lifter and set it in the hole then hand cranked the motor around a couple revolutions.

Looking at all the other lifters rise and fall, they come out of the hole a good 1/4". The new lifter an 1/8th out of the hole.

Looks like time for a new cam.

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 08, 06:48 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

a hydraulic roller this time?

That's totally awful, or a few more words the don't work in TC's vocab.

Clean her out good, Brandon, all that metal went somewhere.
I pulled my comp 270H last winter, found 7 flat lobes! 6 were not to bad, but #8 intake was completely round!
New cam is a voodoo hydro roller, #60112, but she could be a bit much for a 327.





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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 08, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Brandon
 
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Re: Bad lifter?

Jim,

Unfortunately Hydroller isn't in the funds. Granted neither is just replacing this cam and lifters. But, mortgage has to come first, then bills then the cam. So looks like spring drive time is shot in the a$$. On the other hand there's no reason I can't throw the M20 in there now.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 08, 07:17 PM
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Re: Bad lifter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantooch View Post
On the other hand there's no reason I can't throw the M20 in there now.
There ya go, always a silver lining!





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