Starting HELP !! - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 08, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Starting HELP !!

This weekend I put a brand new Powermaster 9526 mini starter on my 383. With 200 lbs. of tq and the ability to crank over a 18:1 engine, I figured there will be NO issue turning over my 9.2:1 383 at all.

Everything hooked up properly and battery checked in at 12.6 Volts before start up. Battery is also only 3 months old and has about 1000CA. With that much UMPH I expected the car to almost rock during start up. Instead it STRUGGLED it's way to a start for about 3 seconds? I thought I might of had a juice issue so I hooked up the battry charger and put it on 50 Amp boost while starting it again. Still a SLOW turn to a start???? Checked all clearances between flywheel and pinion as well.

This is my first mini starter so if anyone else out there can chime in and let me know if this is what to expect or not? But for $230 and with 200 lbs of tq and 4.4:1 gear reduction I really expected a LOT more kick.

69 Camaro -Smeding Performance 383 Stroker 400hp 465lbs tq - TKO 600 - 10 bolt with 3:55 Richmonds and Eaton Posi - DSE Front End - Medium Spirol Grey and 50th Aniversary Red off 2003 Vette
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 08, 02:02 PM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Is your timing too far advanced?

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 08, 02:03 PM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Are the positive and negative cables bad. Maybe just a bad ground.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 08, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Timing is at 12 degrees...

Called Powermaster and told them what was going on. They recommeneded to run a ground strap from the engine block to the frame?

69 Camaro -Smeding Performance 383 Stroker 400hp 465lbs tq - TKO 600 - 10 bolt with 3:55 Richmonds and Eaton Posi - DSE Front End - Medium Spirol Grey and 50th Aniversary Red off 2003 Vette
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 08, 03:06 PM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

It wouldn't suprise me if it was a defective starter. I bought a power master starter to put on my stock 350 (8.5:1) thats in my 67 Camaro now and it did fine for about 3 months and then it just died. I bought it for clearance reasons. Carry it to a parts store and have them bench test it. I guess you could test it at home if you had some spare battery cables and a vise.

1967 Camaro SS: 406 sbc, 522hp/514 ft lbs, Doug's 1 3/4" headers, M20, posi, 3.73's, vintage air gen IV, IROC steering box, Comp Eng. weld-in sfc's & traction bars, chrome US Mags

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 08, 03:11 PM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris-in-Cali View Post
Timing is at 12 degrees...

Called Powermaster and told them what was going on. They recommeneded to run a ground strap from the engine block to the frame?
I also put one on my uncle's 65 Nova with a 9.5:1 350 and an optima blue top battery. It does very well in his car. Like you said in your initial post, it almost feels like its gonna rip the motor out of the mounts when its cranking. Clean the ground cable from your battery as well as where your ground cable bolts to the frame and try it again. If it still doesn't work try the ground strap. That may fix the problem, but I bet its a defect.

1967 Camaro SS: 406 sbc, 522hp/514 ft lbs, Doug's 1 3/4" headers, M20, posi, 3.73's, vintage air gen IV, IROC steering box, Comp Eng. weld-in sfc's & traction bars, chrome US Mags

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Ok... I'm totally lost now. Spent ALL DAY working on the car yesterday and still can not get it right.

I checked and cleaned every cable I could find. If it was screwed to the frame or the engine block I even went over those surfaces with a little wire wheel on a drill till they shined. I then added 2 more grounds. One from the negative terminal of the battery to the block, and another from the housing of the starter to the frame. Battery is at 12.6 Volts before I try to start it but even still I put the battery charger on it with a 50 amp boost before trying to crank it over. Same results. To clarify, the engine DOES START. As a matter of fact it starts in about 2 seconds really. It just that there is not "cranking" involved. The engine does not turn over and over. It sounds more like a 2 second struggle then the engine fires up. I wouldn't trust turning it off and back on too many times. I was told by Powermaster that it's not supposed to sound like that. Took the starter off and went down to the local Kragen to have them Bench Test it, but they hooked it up and their computer told them that it had to be tested on the vehicle.

Any other thoughts???? :-(

69 Camaro -Smeding Performance 383 Stroker 400hp 465lbs tq - TKO 600 - 10 bolt with 3:55 Richmonds and Eaton Posi - DSE Front End - Medium Spirol Grey and 50th Aniversary Red off 2003 Vette
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 10:29 AM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Timing could be off to far advanced or retarded.... What is your timing set at.

Try hot wire starting of the coil and see if you still get the lag. If you do it could only be 2- things the starter needs shims or timing.

If it starts easy then could be the ignition switch.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Timing is at 12 degrees.

How would I hot wire the starter just to check?

69 Camaro -Smeding Performance 383 Stroker 400hp 465lbs tq - TKO 600 - 10 bolt with 3:55 Richmonds and Eaton Posi - DSE Front End - Medium Spirol Grey and 50th Aniversary Red off 2003 Vette
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 11:35 AM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

can you hook the old starter back up?

it will tell you if the new one you got was bad.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 11:52 AM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

That starter motor is defective, send it back!.....The reason why it's cranking so slow is because it's drawing way more cranking amps than the battery is putting out, due to a defective armature!
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 11:53 AM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

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Originally Posted by Badbird View Post
That starter motor is defective, send it back!.....The reason why it's cranking so slow is because it's drawing way more cranking amps than the battery is putting out, due to a defective armature!
i would also recommend getting a cheaper starter also

i have a stock starter that turns over a 12.5:1 comp engine over fine
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Badbird...
I was thinking that also.
But hooked the voltmeter to the battery before and during cranking. Before cranking it's 12.6 During cranking it's only dropping to about 11.0 ??

Also... I CAN NOT get the starter to stop grinding. I started off with no shims and one by one put in up to I think 4 shims?? Soon as the engine starts to fire.... SHING !!!!

Just trying to double and triple check things before I get ahold of Summit or Powermaster. But your right... for $250 I had damn well better get a starter that works for a WHILE.

69 Camaro -Smeding Performance 383 Stroker 400hp 465lbs tq - TKO 600 - 10 bolt with 3:55 Richmonds and Eaton Posi - DSE Front End - Medium Spirol Grey and 50th Aniversary Red off 2003 Vette
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 12:08 PM
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Please stop what you're doing as you're only fighting a losing battle!.....It's not a voltage issue, it's an amperage issue!
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 08, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Starting HELP !!

Badbird...
Just to give you a quick history on what's going on.
This is now the 4th starter I've put on this car. Second starter with a brand new engine. First starter on the new engine lasted about 3 months. Replaced this starter because it started to "struggle" to start the engine, and went with this new high torque mini starter. At first I thought that my headers were just cooking these starters because they sit about 2 inches from the starter. So I also bought an aluminum sided heat wrap to put around the starter.

I am running the standard size battery cables. Engine has 9.2:1 comp. so really ANY starter shouldn't have a problem with this engine.

That being said do you still think it's a defective starter issue, or am I looking at a serious power draw somewhere?

I have no problem returning this starter if need be. But it's funny how this will make starter number 5 with a car that only has 4,000 miles on it ( 500 miles on the new engine).

69 Camaro -Smeding Performance 383 Stroker 400hp 465lbs tq - TKO 600 - 10 bolt with 3:55 Richmonds and Eaton Posi - DSE Front End - Medium Spirol Grey and 50th Aniversary Red off 2003 Vette
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