is this a good rotating assembly? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Shawn
 
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is this a good rotating assembly?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Eagle/356/B12501/10002/-1

is this eagle assembly any good? i want to put this in a 400 block with a 4.145 bore.. im sure i can get different sized pistons

basically is it a stong rotating assembly, or should i be worried, and get better parts?

also, how would that look with a [email protected] duration roller cam with .630 lift, 106 lsa and dart pro1 cnc heads (top end kit w/ single plane intake)?

either those heads or a smaller 215cc runner pro1 heads

car will get limited track and street driven

the heads and pistons will give me around 11.6:1 comp so i can run on pump gas (especially with a bigger cam like that)

how does this look?

this is what i am really leaning towards doing with this engine, i do like AFR heads, but i have never seen one drag racer with them, its either brodix,dart, and rarely edelbrock heads

anyone have some tweaks with this setup that may give me more HP without a higher price tag?

I know this is my 487346456456 thread on this subject, but im still learning a great deal, and i need to know what works with what

if i did infact get this setup.. what would my rpm range look about? same with hp/torque ratings (a general idea) im shooting for a max of 6500rpm

thanks!

edit* i have read that some people had problems with eagle cranks in that they had to be machined before use? they were with cast cranks though, and im looking at a forged one.. not sure if it is the same, but i would also like some input
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 01:30 PM
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

It is a good rotating assembly. Not the best but it is good for the money. You will need to have everything checked to make sure they are within tolerance. I put an Eagle crank in my motor and it needed some massaging to make it right. As I remember the journals were fat by half a thousandth.

You will need to check your Dynamic Compression Ratio to determine if this combo can run on pump gas.

I'm not sure about other parts of the country but lots of racers in California use AFR heads. I've had mine for 8 years and have been very happy with them.

What are your performance goals? Is there a particular ET you are shooting for? What is the rest of your setup?

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel body shaft rockers, Cloyes Timing set, custom ground 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050" with .704" lift, Dart single plane, Holley Dominator EFI on E85, Injector Dynamics ID2000 Injectors, Stef's #1705R oil pan, F2 Procharger, Lemons 2" primary 4" collector, ATI 9" blower converter
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve69SS396 View Post
It is a good rotating assembly. Not the best but it is good for the money. You will need to have everything checked to make sure they are within tolerance. I put an Eagle crank in my motor and it needed some massaging to make it right. As I remember the journals were fat by half a thousandth.

You will need to check your Dynamic Compression Ratio to determine if this combo can run on pump gas.

I'm not sure about other parts of the country but lots of racers in California use AFR heads. I've had mine for 8 years and have been very happy with them.

What are your performance goals? Is there a particular ET you are shooting for? What is the rest of your setup?
im aiming for at least 600hp if possible

im trying to get the maximum out of the engine and still be able to drive it on the street

i by no means want it to be a good mannered street car.. as long as it has enough torque to pull away from a stop sign/red light without reving it up to 5000rpm to take off im happy if you get what im trying to say..

also im pretty sure i already gave you the rest of the setup? (unless you are talking about drivetrain).. it has a th350 (thinking about putting an m22 in though) and VERY high gears (2.73.. i have no idea how they drove the car on the street before with the old engine setup)

edit* but of course these can be changed
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 03:20 PM
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by victimizati0n View Post
im aiming for at least 600hp if possible

im trying to get the maximum out of the engine and still be able to drive it on the street

i by no means want it to be a good mannered street car.. as long as it has enough torque to pull away from a stop sign/red light without reving it up to 5000rpm to take off im happy if you get what im trying to say..

also im pretty sure i already gave you the rest of the setup? (unless you are talking about drivetrain).. it has a th350 (thinking about putting an m22 in though) and VERY high gears (2.73.. i have no idea how they drove the car on the street before with the old engine setup)

edit* but of course these can be changed
You should be able to get 600HP out of a 406 and it will have plenty of torque. I think I remember you had another thread where you picked up a 2 bolt 400 block? I would have the block checked first.

Use this calculator and determine your DCR, I think it may be a bit too high for pump gas. http://http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

Other parts of the car to consider:
1. Trans will need a performance rebuild with good parts
2. High stall converter 3,500+
3. If the rear is a 10 bolt you will need to upgrade.
4. The rear gears need to be replaced
5. Fuel system
6. Ignition
7. Traction

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel body shaft rockers, Cloyes Timing set, custom ground 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050" with .704" lift, Dart single plane, Holley Dominator EFI on E85, Injector Dynamics ID2000 Injectors, Stef's #1705R oil pan, F2 Procharger, Lemons 2" primary 4" collector, ATI 9" blower converter
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve69SS396 View Post
You should be able to get 600HP out of a 406 and it will have plenty of torque. I think I remember you had another thread where you picked up a 2 bolt 400 block? I would have the block checked first.

Use this calculator and determine your DCR, I think it may be a bit too high for pump gas. http://http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

Other parts of the car to consider:
1. Trans will need a performance rebuild with good parts
2. High stall converter 3,500+
3. If the rear is a 10 bolt you will need to upgrade.
4. The rear gears need to be replaced
5. Fuel system
6. Ignition
7. Traction
yeah, that was me, im going to get the block bored 20 over, and i guess sonic tested, it has already been pressure and mag tested

im not entirely sure how to use that calculator, because my understanding of deck height isnt there, so i really dont know what to enter

im not sure what has been done to the trans, but it was behind a 400 or so HP engine.. same with the 10 bolt

im not sure about fuel.. mechanical or a electric pump, and i have my eyes set on a msd ign kit from jegs
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 06:13 PM
 
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Deck height is the measured piston down in the hole (DITH) at TDC measured twice at the pin location in the piston to double check. This take's care of any piston rock.

Stock is like .025" DITH!!

And quench is deck height w/ the thickness of the headgasket you want to use w/ the head flat on the short block so usually w/ a DITH of a stock .025", a .015" to a .020" thick shim headgasket is right in there!!

Like .035" to .045" is fine here however you come up w/ it!!!!!!

pdq67



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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 06:36 PM
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

that will put you about where I am... your combo will be = <--that close to mine. I'm running 200cc heads and 10.6:1 compression.

68 Camaro~LSx ~all motor
1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq67 View Post
Deck height is the measured piston down in the hole (DITH) at TDC measured twice at the pin location in the piston to double check. This take's care of any piston rock.

Stock is like .025" DITH!!

And quench is deck height w/ the thickness of the headgasket you want to use w/ the head flat on the short block so usually w/ a DITH of a stock .025", a .015" to a .020" thick shim headgasket is right in there!!

Like .035" to .045" is fine here however you come up w/ it!!!!!!

pdq67
so can i measure this with a digital caliper?

are you basically talking about how far the piston is from the top of the cylinder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUG G View Post
that will put you about where I am... your combo will be = <--that close to mine. I'm running 200cc heads and 10.6:1 compression.
haha nice
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 08:28 PM
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Wink Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

That's a good kit, but not a good price for it. Try this link

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/category.asp?CtgID=9037

I've bought a lot of parts from CNC Motorsports and never been disappointed. That same kit you are looking at Eagle 12501 is $1464.95 through them. At that price you can tack on some of the upgrade or the competition balancing for another 110 bucks. Take a real serious look at CNC, I don't think you'll be sorry you did. In this case you'd save $450 bucks for the same parts. You can get a lot of machine work done on your block with that kind of change.

Dave

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 08:39 PM
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

I used a Eagle rotating assembly in my 489, they were pretty spot on the cast crank and I-Beam rods, clearance wise. Very consistent between journals, didn't need any machine work.

I got mine from Summit Racing, you will hard to beat their prices and their $11.00 shipping on this item...

Ed

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY1 View Post
That's a good kit, but not a good price for it. Try this link

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/category.asp?CtgID=9037

I've bought a lot of parts from CNC Motorsports and never been disappointed. That same kit you are looking at Eagle 12501 is $1464.95 through them. At that price you can tack on some of the upgrade or the competition balancing for another 110 bucks. Take a real serious look at CNC, I don't think you'll be sorry you did. In this case you'd save $450 bucks for the same parts. You can get a lot of machine work done on your block with that kind of change.

Dave
thanks for the link, but they dont have a .020 overbore set listed.. can i still order it with that size?

this sounds like a great place
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 08, 10:30 PM
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Call and talk to their tech guys. They may be able to swap out the piston set for you for a .020 set. I know they helped me a lot when selecting a ring set making sure I got the right set for the way I would use the car. Worst that can happen is they won't be able to help you out. While you've got them on the phone talk to them about any of the upgrades they list for the set and if they feel there would be any benefits to any of them for your application. I don't think they'll try to sell you what you don't need, at least that's been my experience with them.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 08, 04:44 AM
 
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Yes, top of piston flat around the edge at the pin ends to the block deck is deck height.

pdq67



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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 08, 05:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq67 View Post
Yes, top of piston flat around the edge at the pin ends to the block deck is deck height.

pdq67

cool.. from what i remember my little 302 had a VERY small deck height, the dome of the piston stuck out, and the flat part was almost equal with the deck.. although the deck was milled down

edit* lets say i opted for this rotating assembly

now, i have three choices of heads.. the dart pro1 215cc, dart 227cc CNC heads, or the AFR competition 210cc heads.. which one will be better for my application?

im looking for max power around the 6000-6500rpm range

Last edited by victimizati0n; Aug 27th, 08 at 06:42 AM.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 08, 08:34 AM
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Re: is this a good rotating assembly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq67 View Post
Deck height is the measured piston down in the hole (DITH) at TDC measured twice at the pin location in the piston to double check. This take's care of any piston rock.

Stock is like .025" DITH!!

And quench is deck height w/ the thickness of the headgasket you want to use w/ the head flat on the short block so usually w/ a DITH of a stock .025", a .015" to a .020" thick shim headgasket is right in there!!

Like .035" to .045" is fine here however you come up w/ it!!!!!!

pdq67

Deck height should be measured inthe center of the piston if its a flat top as measuring on the edge is not very accurate. Push down on the pin side of the piston and do the other side and you can see what I am talking about
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