OIL PUMP QUESTIONs - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 08, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Ray
 
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OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

I am replacing the pan on my 302 and decided best replace pump while I was at it.
Pump that was installed is a High Volume pump.
I plan to install a stock pump. I have no plans on serious strip racing and figured stock pump would be adequate.
Any thoughts on stock or High volume pump.

ALSO, I noticed a slight groove cut in the extension rod which runs from pump to distributor. The groove is about a couple inches above the nylon collar used to mate pump to the exetension rod.
IS THIS A COMMON FIND ?
I can't see what is causing this wear, Groove.

THANKS
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 12:01 AM
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Terry
 
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

I don't reccomend a high volume pump on street machine unless you use a over sized oil pan or restrict oil flow to the heads. At high RPM I have seen HV pumps suck a pan dry.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 05:42 AM
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Shawn
 
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarrowman View Post
I don't reccomend a high volume pump on street machine unless you use a over sized oil pan or restrict oil flow to the heads. At high RPM I have seen HV pumps suck a pan dry.
although i have never tested this, it sounds about right

i have the melling HV pump and well, i must say, dont take a valve cover off while the engine is running or you will be soaked in oil
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 05:51 AM
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Gary
 
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

Recommend not using any HV pumps in "steel rod" builds, contrary to arguments, it will pump the oil away from the pickup long enough to possibly cause some early bearing damage. (Mentioned above here and I do agree)

Use the same pump that G.M. installed when new, these are the HP (high-pressure) pieces.

Melling's original part #M55-A or the newer "Select" series #10553, either would be the correct pump for your "302".

We use "dozens" of these "A" pumps in just about all the "street" SB's we build! They will run with about 60#/65" pressure cruising!

The slight groove MAY be a combination of the "plastic" sleeve and some minor "misaligment" in the block where the shaft rides. This should be checked and "fixed" as necessary! The "steel-sleeve" drive may cure it also!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Also, DO NOT use any "driveshafts" with the "plastic/nylon" couplings, use only the Melling #IS-55-E for the early SB's.

Last edited by GOSFAST; Sep 2nd, 08 at 05:55 AM. Reason: Add
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 05:52 AM
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

You'd have some serious issues if the HV pump would pull that much oil and not have sufficient drainback, lol. An HV pump would work with no issues but there's really not any need for one. Even when I ran internal oil pumps in my race small blocks with aluminum rods I never used an HV pump, ever. Or more than 60 psi even with an engine that ran up to 8500. All they do is rob a tiny more bit of power, and the standard volume pump works fine with the excellent oiling system GM designed into the small block engines. And, be careful of the 'pressure balanced' pumps as they'll run with a lower oil pressure due to the anti-cavitation slots bleeding off a bit of pressure. The ordinary old pumps work fine with the higher-pressure spring if needed to attain the desired pressure.

Oldani Motorsports

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 06:48 AM
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Charlie
 
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

I would replace the nylon collar with a steel one though, just to be on the safe side.

Charlie Knudsen 67 Camaro RS/SS 350 TKO 600, 4.10's, AFR 195 Street Heads, Comp 270H, Rhoads Lifters, Crane Ignition, Pertronix Dizzy, Performer RPM Q-Jet, Heavily Modified Q-Jet, Hooker Comp Headers, MagnaFlow 2 1/2", 144 Decibles(Alpine CDA-7998 Head Unit, RF X7 and RF 750X Amps, MB Quart Mid's & High's, Kicker L7 12" Solo Barics)
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 11:16 AM
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Dave
 
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

Use the 10553 Mellings Select Series pump like Gary recommended. The M55 series pumps are not the quality they used to be. Mellings no longer recommends them for performance use due to the weaker pump body casting that they went to in the 90s. The Select series has many, many advantages to it over the current M55 series. Twenty years ago I'd have run a M55A and it would have been my preferred pump, but I'd never use the weak casting when you have the option of the Select series, steel gears, pinned drive gears, gear locating dowels that extend into the pump lid, bolt on pickup, mag phosphate coated, reduced end clearance gear to pump body, just too many adavantages to the Select series for the small increase in price.

"..............what, and get out of aviation??"
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 02:16 PM
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Jim
 
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

The only possible problem is if your clearances are wide and the HV pump is hiding it. You might find you have low idle pressure. There's really no down side to a HV pump with a reasonable pressure relief setting.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 02:43 PM
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Steps
 
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

Most engine builders in NZ use a hi volume pump as a std component of a rebuild, and have done so for decades...and so have I
As far as pulling too much oil on a stock pan in a street car damaging bearings, its un heard of here.
Rather issues where back yard builders have pickups drop off or dont chrck bearing clearances during assembly is the cause of bearing failures...not running out of oil.
Sounds more like someone at some time has built an engine wrong and to cover tracks, blames the oil pump type BS...then becomes one of those urban myths.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 08, 04:14 PM
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Tim
 
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Re: OIL PUMP QUESTIONs

I agree all he needs is a stock volume pump, the select series.

Steps, I also agree with you and Oldani and Jim. HV shouldn't be a problem. Volume and pressure go hand in hand here. The bypass will just open and all the excess volume just blows out after consuming power.

I use the 10552c +10% pump in my good engine, and I have not seen a low pressure problem. My clearances are in the 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 range.

I do what some people may consider strange things when I build engines

https://www.camaros.net/forums/attach...4&d=1217899039

but I have to KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that my junk is clean and doesn't leak and everything is perfect. I learn some good stuff sometimes. Here's a tidbit. A +10 pump at 900 rpm(1800crankshaft) and 3/8" clearance to the pan will cavitate on a crank with no rods on it(we're talking MASSIVE leakage guys) with 3 quarts in the pan. With 4 quarts in the pan it DOES NOT cavitate. That is with the remote oil filter and about 6' of 3/4 ss hose empty to begin with. Now that's not a 7500 rpm test w/ 180 degree oil, but it is hard evidence that a pump sucking a pan dry is probly bs.

Tim Smith
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