67 zl1 ? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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67 zl1 ?

Found this at ebay.
Casting date from -67?
Black Panther ZL1 engine?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...A1123&viewitem=

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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 09:45 AM
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Is it real?? (67?)

Last edited by SPARKY69; Dec 21st, 08 at 09:59 AM.
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 09:56 AM
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Where did you get the '67 casting date? I believe the Casting # 3946052 is correct for '69 427 ZL-1...

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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKY69 View Post
Is it real??
I asked him for suffix code but the pad is blank, no suffix code.
It does not look like a -69 ZL1 block.
I saw this for a couple years ago about -67 Black Panther.

http://dibn.net/AutoLegends/BlackPanther/

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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DjD View Post
Where did you get the '67 casting date? I believe the Casting # 3946052 is correct for '69 427 ZL-1...

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u...ewi/c0a3_1.jpg

1th June -67

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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 10:19 AM
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikke View Post
I asked him for suffix code but the pad is blank, no suffix code.
It does not look like a -69 ZL1 block.
I saw this for a couple years ago about -67 Black Panther.

http://dibn.net/AutoLegends/BlackPanther/

Nikke
Unfortunatly a lot of bad info out there... The Mark IV BB Alum 427 was not a reality until 1969.

...Dennis

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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 10:37 AM
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Something isn't right here. I don't see the Winters snowflake casting mark anywhere and also the Ebay block has a 67 casting date but a regular casting number. The ZL-1 blocks were available in 67 to Can Am racers but had a 0- part number until they were officially aproved by GM in 69 according to this website. http://www.guinns-engineering.com/Pa...type%20ZL1.htm Chevrolet Aluminum 427 Cuin Engine – Can-Am and ZL1 configurations

Chevrolets disappointment over the results of the 1966 Can Am series and the lack luster performance of the 327 prompted the “advanced thinking” which initiated Engineering’s development of the all aluminum 427.

Additional horsepower would be required to re-gain the competitive edge in the upcoming 1967 Can-Am season. The problem was that the 327 had reached the “end-development” stage and only more cubic inches would get the job done. The Iron 427 was available and was demonstrated to be highly competitive in NASCAR - but the additional weight in the small Can Am chassis was a consideration that could hold it back. Since Can-Am had no restriction on production derivatives, materials, induction types etc., it was conceived by Engineering that experimentation using cast aluminum in limited production was feasible study for the 427.

The success of the experimental program gave rise to the “Can-Am” Aluminum 427 which had its debut in the 1967 Daytona Continental Can-Am in the engine bay of the Chaparral 2F. The Chaparral immediately went on to set a record for the fastest lap and it held great promise for the series. As it turns out, it was one of the most successful race engines of all time.

The Aluminum 427 engine became available (in theory) over Chevrolets Parts Counters, and carried an “O-Dash” Prototype (Interim) Casting/Part Number. Of course, availability to the general public was curtailed in accordance with Chevrolet’s policy of keeping “special parts” in the hands of a select few, and therefore Product Performance Groups “Back-Door” policy was in full effect.
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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHBandit View Post
Something isn't right here. I don't see the Winters snowflake casting mark anywhere and also the Ebay block has a 67 casting date but a regular casting number. The ZL-1 blocks were available in 67 to Can Am racers but had a 0- part number until they were officially aproved by GM in 69 according to this website. http://www.guinns-engineering.com/Pa...type%20ZL1.htm Chevrolet Aluminum 427 Cuin Engine – Can-Am and ZL1 configurations

Chevrolets disappointment over the results of the 1966 Can Am series and the lack luster performance of the 327 prompted the “advanced thinking” which initiated Engineering’s development of the all aluminum 427.

Additional horsepower would be required to re-gain the competitive edge in the upcoming 1967 Can-Am season. The problem was that the 327 had reached the “end-development” stage and only more cubic inches would get the job done. The Iron 427 was available and was demonstrated to be highly competitive in NASCAR - but the additional weight in the small Can Am chassis was a consideration that could hold it back. Since Can-Am had no restriction on production derivatives, materials, induction types etc., it was conceived by Engineering that experimentation using cast aluminum in limited production was feasible study for the 427.

The success of the experimental program gave rise to the “Can-Am” Aluminum 427 which had its debut in the 1967 Daytona Continental Can-Am in the engine bay of the Chaparral 2F. The Chaparral immediately went on to set a record for the fastest lap and it held great promise for the series. As it turns out, it was one of the most successful race engines of all time.

The Aluminum 427 engine became available (in theory) over Chevrolets Parts Counters, and carried an “O-Dash” Prototype (Interim) Casting/Part Number. Of course, availability to the general public was curtailed in accordance with Chevrolet’s policy of keeping “special parts” in the hands of a select few, and therefore Product Performance Groups “Back-Door” policy was in full effect.

So, does this mean that -67 Black Panther ZL1 Camaro did exist?


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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 11:11 AM
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

No. There was no ZL-1 engine in '67.

William

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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
No. There was no ZL-1 engine in '67.
Ehh, ok, thanks William.
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 11:56 AM
 
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

It's neat how no letters from the VIN show up when somebody wants to try to make money off a supposed real engine/block, whatever.

pdq67



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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

I think that he doesn't know what this is.
He believe that this is a -69 ZL1.
Over Counters engine didn't have vin# and this haven't any CE (Crate Engine) marks.

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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 01:55 PM
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Quote, "The success of the experimental program gave rise to the “Can-Am” Aluminum 427 which had its debut in the 1967 Daytona Continental Can-Am in the engine bay of the Chaparral 2F."

This statement proves that there was in fact a 67 427 ZL-1. Whether or not the "public" had access to it or not makes no difference. The answer to the question, is there a 427 ZL-1 in 67 is yes. Now, I'm not saying that it was installed in ANY consumer automobiles, but it was in fact in existance. The Chaparral 2F would not have been successful without it.

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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 02:04 PM
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Charlie - I don't know that much about all this but it would seem since "ZL-1" is an RPO code that even if there were 427cu alum blocks in '67 if they were not available as RPO ZL-1 then there were no 'ZL-1's in 1967.

The article referenced above refers to the "Can-Am” Aluminum 427" and says it's debut was in the 1967 Daytona Continental Can-Am.

...Dennis

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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 08, 02:10 PM
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Re: 67 zl1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67CamaroRS/SS View Post
Quote, "The success of the experimental program gave rise to the “Can-Am” Aluminum 427 which had its debut in the 1967 Daytona Continental Can-Am in the engine bay of the Chaparral 2F."

This statement proves that there was in fact a 67 427 ZL-1. .
Isn't "ZL1" a "production option code" of sorts? One that applied to L88 427's with alluminum blocks?

Correct me (as always) if I'm wrong (which I often am on these historical details), but...

The CanAm motors were a separate animal. Bare blocks only, sold or made available to select pro racing teams. Physically different than a pass car block, dry sump oiling, no fuel pump boss, that kinda thing?

ZL1 was a production based derivitive, parralel to but different from the camam program.





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