mysterious advance issue - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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mysterious advance issue

Hi guys,
Here's the problem....My buddy has a 70 Camaro with very similar setup as mine. He put it together recently. The issue is wwhen he tries to time it, if he sets the total advance at 36-38 degrees using an inductive light, the car idles poorly, wnats to stall, and on hard acceleration, it has NO power. He says he advanced the distributor several times, going as high as 68 degrees on the total advance, the engine idled better and ran harder, no pinging, no hard starting. runs cent advance dist, all MSD stuff. Used the proper timing light as per MSD.
I didn't think an engine would even run at 68 degrees total advance, or if it did that it would come apart with that much advance.
What is going on with this engine? I looked at his timing and verified what the light said. We used two other lights including an MSD light and get the same thing. Is there an issue with the MSD box (brand new), or is it possible that the camshaft installation could be that far off to cause this issue? I'm kinda mystified as is he.
He says he checked the cam timing gears several times and the marks line up, but he didn't degree it. How is all this possible.
RJ
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 09:51 AM
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Re: mysterious advance issue

Are you using an adjustable advance canister?
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: mysterious advance issue

if you mean vacuum, no strictly mech MSD Pro-billet
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 09:55 AM
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Re: mysterious advance issue

Have you checked to see if the timing marks are correct? When the #1 cylinder is at TDC the timing mark on the balancer should be next to the zero mark on the timing tab.

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: mysterious advance issue

yup, chaecked that first, new balancer, no slipping of balancer hub. I know all the questions you are going to ask, haha. Checked most probably. Can't see how the engine can run like it does. Could the cam installation even be far enough off to causse this and still run like it does way advanced. Could the MSD box have an issue?

rj
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 10:02 AM
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Re: mysterious advance issue

Are you saying that you physically checked the TDC mark or that you think it's right because you have a new balancer?

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: mysterious advance issue

put the stop bolt in the cylinder, spun the balancer both ways and check for tdc. Nothing wrong that I can see
RJ
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 10:25 AM
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Re: mysterious advance issue

RJ, At low rpm and particularly at low load, the engine LIKES A LOT of advance.

Yes, free reving in neutral, the motor will "sound good" at 60 degrees plus.

At idle, to run best (load or no load) it will DEMAND at leat 20 degrees, and probably a lot more.

Under full load and full power, much over 36 will cost power (could be as low as 32 depending on heads, etc.) and much more than 40 will kill it (though it would still sound damned fine while it was destroying itself.)

So, you need to verify again that the timing marks and balancer are correct.
Set your desired total timing @ xxxx rpm.
Check your actual timing at idle.

and post back.

It sounds like something weird is going on inside the distributor.
You might also try bypassing the ignition box for these tests if that's an option.





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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: mysterious advance issue

Verified the timing marks and balancer several times. Set the timing at 38* at 2000rpm, where advance is all in. 18* initial .Car simply will not pull there.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 10:33 AM
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Re: mysterious advance issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJBaileyrn View Post
Set the timing at 38* at 2000rpm, where advance is all in. 18* initial .Car simply will not pull there.
Lock out the timing. 38 all over end of discussion.
Lemme know if she pings pulling part throttle.





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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: mysterious advance issue

not sure how to do that, but I think the MSD directions mention that.
rj
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 12:51 PM
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Re: mysterious advance issue

Quote:
Set the timing at 38* at 2000rpm, where advance is all in. 18* initial .Car simply will not pull there.
just to clear up...If u then take rpms above 2000 does the advance keep going up?
you should be setting so the advance goes up to about 36/38 and NO further with increase in rpms and should stop advancing about the 3000 to 3600 rpms.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: mysterious advance issue

why at 3000-3600? It presently stops advancing at 2000
thanks
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 01:30 PM
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Re: mysterious advance issue

I think the issue is that if you bring in the advance too early, you can have detonation issues. As the rpm's increase, the engine can handle an earlier spark (advance) as the piston is moving faster whereas the flame of combustion is constant so it becomes a timing issue of the explosion/burn of the fuel mixture compared to the speed of the piston coming up. (at least that is how it was explained to me in high school auto shop).

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 09, 03:10 PM
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Re: mysterious advance issue

Is the distributor installed 180 degrees out? An engine will run that way. Though not well. Just for funzies, take the distributor out, turn the engine one revolution, reinstall the distributor and retime it.
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