Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 09, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Dario
 
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Question Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

OK... I have an issue... but don't we all? I'm not sure I can do a cam change yet... both monitarily and especially know-how. For background on what my specs are and the story behind what happened go here: https://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=148598

Did you read it? I know... I know... change the cam. I don't know if I can... and then there's the inevitable "I told you so" from the wife. That alone makes the scales lean towards the no chance in hell! But per chance let's say that I choose to... to save myself from the endless snowball effect of having to buy way too much to bandaid all the wounds that WAY too large a cam gives. What would I have to do? The engine has been broken in. It has been run maybe 15-20 times max... only two times once around the block... and it was a small block. Could I get away with a simple cam change without having to change the lifters and springs and who knows what else (no really... i don't know what else). Can I get away with just the cam... and maybe pushrods? The lifters should be good yes? The springs are, I imagine, for this cam that I have installed now: http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=296&sb=2 Would these springs work with another milder cam from comp cams...let say.. like this one?: http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=224&sb=2

Or am I looking at a complete redo?! Someone... please... read the tech specs on both cams and what my set up is in the link provided above. Please... tell me what exactly I would need to buy and do to change my cam to this more streetable version. I just see way too many headaches in the future.

Many thanks T.C.

67 RS Camaro
Originally: Stock 327/210 w/AC, 2 Speed Powerglide & Deluxe Interior
Now: Hotchkis SB TVS, Cross-Drilled/Slotted Disc Brake Conversion, 327/330, Headers w/ Pypes Dual Street Pros & more to come.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 09, 04:20 PM
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David
 
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jet-tech1 View Post
OK... I have an issue... but don't we all? I'm not sure I can do a cam change yet... both monitarily and especially know-how. For background on what my specs are and the story behind what happened go here: https://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=148598

Did you read it? I know... I know... change the cam. I don't know if I can... and then there's the inevitable "I told you so" from the wife. That alone makes the scales lean towards the no chance in hell! But per chance let's say that I choose to... to save myself from the endless snowball effect of having to buy way too much to bandaid all the wounds that WAY too large a cam gives. What would I have to do? The engine has been broken in. It has been run maybe 15-20 times max... only two times once around the block... and it was a small block. Could I get away with a simple cam change without having to change the lifters and springs and who knows what else (no really... i don't know what else). Can I get away with just the cam... and maybe pushrods? The lifters should be good yes? The springs are, I imagine, for this cam that I have installed now: http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=296&sb=2 Would these springs work with another milder cam from comp cams...let say.. like this one?: http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=224&sb=2

Or am I looking at a complete redo?! Someone... please... read the tech specs on both cams and what my set up is in the link provided above. Please... tell me what exactly I would need to buy and do to change my cam to this more streetable version. I just see way too many headaches in the future.

Many thanks T.C.
......Hope this bit of info doesn't confuse you, but.........some people will tell you that it's safe to just change the cam and reuse the lifters and some will reccomend that you change both............. yet.....

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 09, 04:24 PM
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

yes, you could switch only the cam and go to the xs262.
With the rest of what you have, you might go down one more step, if there is one.
The springs, pushrods, and such should be fine.

At least in theory, once broken in, the lifters are married to the lobes, and if the cam is changed, the lifters should be replaced too. I would change them, but some have gotten away with not.





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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 09, 04:37 PM
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

I agree with what JimM said.
Springs should be just fine.
Just change the cam & lifters, re-do the break-in process, then let 'er rip!
I think it's easy enough, just have to remove a few things to make enough room to slide the cam in/out.....

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 09, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Dario
 
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimM View Post
yes, you could switch only the cam and go to the xs262.
With the rest of what you have, you might go down one more step, if there is one.
The springs, pushrods, and such should be fine.

At least in theory, once broken in, the lifters are married to the lobes, and if the cam is changed, the lifters should be replaced too. I would change them, but some have gotten away with not.
Yeah... I understand about the lifters and cams having been broken in together... but I was hoping that since it was only 15 or so runs, the bonding would have been minimal. Like I wouldn't even think of it if I had been using the car heavily for several weeks. My main concern was the springs and pushrods. I know nothing about spring rates. Would these new springs I have installed be too much or too little for the smaller cam or would that not make a noticeable difference to cause concern. Also... the pushrods... could those be reused? Are they not a different size/length with a smaller cam? I'm just not sure what can be reused. If all can be except the cam itself... then maybe I'll beg for 4 or 5 days of overtime, grow a backbone to try a completely new thing, cross my fingers... pray really hard not to completely botch it and give it a go.

As for an even smaller cam profile... it only comes in one size smaller without being completely stock. The xs262 is a middle of the road version with what seems like a nice sounding idle... and i do love the sound of my current idle. But then again, that's how i got into this mess right? Play it safe and go basically back to stock?

67 RS Camaro
Originally: Stock 327/210 w/AC, 2 Speed Powerglide & Deluxe Interior
Now: Hotchkis SB TVS, Cross-Drilled/Slotted Disc Brake Conversion, 327/330, Headers w/ Pypes Dual Street Pros & more to come.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 09, 04:58 PM
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AJ
 
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

Why do you want to go with the same cam family?
There are much better performance cams out there from comp that don't have a ridiculous 107lsa for a relatively stock car.
Without changing your converter I would say the comp cams magnum 270 or smaller would be a good choice, it has more lift, less duration and a good lsa.
I would say it would benefit you more than the cam you have now, but even then with stock 3.08 gears and a stock converter, it's still not going to be very happy.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 09, 04:58 PM
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Logan
 
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

Why not change them both while your at it, and it would be alot safer. a cam and lifter kit isnt that much more expensive than just the cam.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 09, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Dario
 
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace's68 View Post
Why do you want to go with the same cam family?
There are much better performance cams out there from comp that don't have a ridiculous 107lsa for a relatively stock car.
Without changing your converter I would say the comp cams magnum 270 or smaller would be a good choice, it has more lift, less duration and a good lsa.
I would say it would benefit you more than the cam you have now, but even then with stock 3.08 gears and a stock converter, it's still not going to be very happy.
Like Mater said in the Cars movie... "You hurt your what?!" This suck bang blow stuff that makes pistons go up and down really fast isn't my gig. Not a frickin clue. That's why I'm EXTREMELY hesitant to try this. What is an LSA and does having a hundred and seven of them hurt? No seriously... what's the difference? The xs262s cam shows a lobe center angle of 110 and an intake centerline of 106... as opposed to the 107 for both in the cam I have now... is that what you're talking about. I have no idea whatsoever as to what that does. I arbitrarily chose the xs262s because Comp describes it like this and I thought that a good streetable engine with mild upgrades like mine with good vacuum characteristics and a noticeable idle (whatever that means... any ideas what they mean?... a little lumpier?) might just take care of many of my problems. Here's the description:

Xtreme Energy Cams™Benefits:
  • <LI class=mainfont2>Quicker opening lobe profiles deliver increased responsiveness & more area under the lift curve <LI class=mainfont2>More vacuum allows you to take step up in duration for greater performance
  • Best seller; excellent all around performance in street carbureted applications
Important Considerations:
  • <LI class=mainfont2>Work best with COMP Cams® roller rockers and matched valve springs
  • Really require other performance parts (intake manifold, headers,) to make it shine

And it's middle of the road type of street performance cam. There is one lower and one higher level that is described as "XS268S Great for street machines, largest cam for stock converter"


Besides that, I looked at the Magnums and they are described by Comp as:
Magnum CamsBenefits:
  • Great high rpm power
  • Easy on valve train parts
  • Can be used with mild ratio rocker arms and traditional performance valve springs
Important Considerations:
  • Really needs a converter and gear change
  • These like compression (9.5:1 & up)
  • Larger Magnums are a little lazy at low rpm
I don't want to have to change my converter if at all necessary and I highly doubt I have 9.5:1 & up CR

If I could just harness you guys' know how and funnel it into my brain! I swear I would be done and driving around by now. ARGH!

67 RS Camaro
Originally: Stock 327/210 w/AC, 2 Speed Powerglide & Deluxe Interior
Now: Hotchkis SB TVS, Cross-Drilled/Slotted Disc Brake Conversion, 327/330, Headers w/ Pypes Dual Street Pros & more to come.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Dario
 
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

OK. I spoke to the people at Comp and told them what I have and what the deal was and they definitely agree with all of you that the cam is at the center of my troubles. They did however say that what I have installed does technically work for my higher RPM powerglide but only if I do more highway driving than stop and go. They recommend, however, the XS262S for mild to mid performance upgrade with my setup and added that the XS268 would be as high as I should go without having to seriously worry about street drivability, vacuum problems and tranny problems. Unless I add an upgraded torque converter, vacuum can for my brakes (or hydroboost) and deal with the high idle that inherently will come with this cam. I can hear my wallet screaming not to mention the wife. They also said agreed that the springs should be good for the XS262 and the rods as well, which is a surprise to me. I thought I would need longer rods for the smaller lobes. The big surprise was that they also said that since it's a basically new cam, that if the lifters look new and have no markings or grooving, I can reuse them for the new cam though they always recommend you buy new... of course. That makes me feel a little better. So given some time to save up, I'm probably going to buy a new cam and try something new. Hell, I've tried nothing but new things for over a year now... what's one more.

A question though... is there a market for very slightly used cams so that I can recoop some money or should I just toss it out? It seems like a dang shame to just toss it. It is a nice cam... just not for my application.

67 RS Camaro
Originally: Stock 327/210 w/AC, 2 Speed Powerglide & Deluxe Interior
Now: Hotchkis SB TVS, Cross-Drilled/Slotted Disc Brake Conversion, 327/330, Headers w/ Pypes Dual Street Pros & more to come.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 08:57 PM
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Al
 
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

Dario - replace the cam AND the lifters - just do it. When you pull the old cam, keep the lifters in the same order that they were run on the lobes. SOMEBODY might buy it from you, but don't hold your breath. Of course, if you list it on e-bay some schmuck WILL buy it!! I would never buy a used cam/lifters unless it was a roller and I knew the guy, but that's me.

If I was you, I'd put a hydraulic flat tappet cam in it, esp if the cam co. says your current springs are OK.

PS If I lived in LV I'd come over and do the job for you. Maybe someone else here who lives in LV will step up. Never underestimate the power of beer.


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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Dario
 
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Re: Changing a cam... what's involved with my situation?

Hmmm... Ebay. Never sold anything in Ebay before. And as for someone doing it for me... nah, but I sure would appreciate the help. I'd like to learn. You know what they say... teach a man how to fish...

67 RS Camaro
Originally: Stock 327/210 w/AC, 2 Speed Powerglide & Deluxe Interior
Now: Hotchkis SB TVS, Cross-Drilled/Slotted Disc Brake Conversion, 327/330, Headers w/ Pypes Dual Street Pros & more to come.

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