1970 LT1 Motor Question - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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1970 LT1 Motor Question

I am restoring my 1968 plain jane Camaro and I am thinking of building a 1970 LT1 motor. Does anyone have any comments, advise, or suggestions? I would like to build the '70 LT1 as I had that motor in my '70 Z28 and I found the motor to be unbelievable. I have not found anything else to date that performed like that motor. Perhaps I am out of touch, but I would like and engine that really performs on the street, and has brutal exceleration. Also thinking of mating it to an M-22 as that was the trans I had in my '70 Z. There has been a lot of talk of crate motors and other small blocks that perform well. I have not driven a car with any of these other motors but I would like to know if I should build a vintage motor, that I assume will be fairly costly unless I find one for sale, or buy a motor that will perform like the 70 Z28 Lt1 or better? Also curious if the 350 LT1 perfoms better than the 302? I have not driven a 302 so I am not sure myself but I have heard a lot about that motor being a real screamer, with no pull under 4000 RPM? Also note I am a 68-69 Z28 Freak!
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post #2 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 03:09 AM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Every Member here know's I will jump on this thread:

I doubt if you will find a 70Z LT1 motor, at least one intact, as there were only 8,733 built for ½ a year in 70; however, you can build a similar motor from an 010 4 bolt block casting, 69 or 70 Turbo-Fuelie heads but recommend either AFR or Vortec, Edlebrock RPM with a 750 Holley Dp and run a similar profile cam. 350 OEM Forged Cranks are not impossible to find. New Eagle SIR or Scat rods and Forged Pistons from JE or Speed Pro.

The 11:1 Static Compression of the 70 LT1 is not suitable for to days pump gas and not high enough for E85. You can either it down to around 10:1 for gas or up it to say 13:1 and run E85. I personally would go the E85 route as you can extract considerably more power out of 105 E-Octane then 93 Octane Pump Gas and the motor will run super clean both inside and outside plus will pass environmental emissions. Suggest you read this: http://www.raceone85.com/. Running any where between a 11 to 12:1 Static compression on the street is a Dead Zone (a Do Do Bird) with to days fuels unless you want to pay out for racing gas or put additives in the tank. The 350 LT1 delivers considerable more Hp & Torque at lower rpm then the 302 and behaves nicely in everyday traffic.

Yes you can bleed off Compression with a Cam selection but then you have NO Torque and your engine had better be designed to take the stress of Hi-RPM's - Thus NO Solution.

Keep in mind that you can buy Stroker Kits for the SBC and build yourself a 383 or a 402 and even a 427 CI SB Engine.

For a Cam I would suggest updating to a Hydraulic Roller Retro-Fit but if you want that extra Hi-RPM you require either a Solid FT (CHEAP) or SR-Retro-Fit (Expensive). Note that running FT engines today is precarious as you have to be wary of the ZDDP Oil content.

A Donovan Cam Gear Drive or a Summit Belt Cam Gear drive on top of a Jessel or the cheaper Chinese RKM 350 Shaft Rocker system or a Manley Valves topped with a Jomar Girdle would be nice but then again more bucks - LOL

If you find a 70Z LT1 motor contact me ;o)

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This was my 70 1/2 Z28

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post #3 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 07:47 AM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

You can run the 11:1 if you run a true tetraethyl lead substitute like Octane Supreme 130 or equivilent. You have to be 100% sure it's a true tetraethyl lead sub. This is the ONLY additive that increases your octane by full points and not fractions of points.
http://kemcooil.com/

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post #4 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 08:14 AM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Charlie - Where can I buy Supreme 130 in Canada - At one time I could and get Red X then mix with a gallon of Methyl Hydrate on top of Sunoco 260 in the tank but them days are gone.

Why not E85 - Man - That's the solution ;o)

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post #5 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 08:29 AM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Why not go E85 at 105 Octane and 13:1 Static Compression - What more can you ask for 100 more Hp and it will pass the Sniffer.

Sorry for the double post but my ISP is a Yoe-Yoh - LOL

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post #6 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Thanks Z15Cam. You are obviously very knowledgable in this area and I really appreciate the advise. Is there a crate motor that would fit the bill to give me the neck snapping acceleration of the LT1 and a vintage feel? I am really keen on the vintage look and performance. Obviously things have changed since I used to terrorize the neighborhood in my 70 Z28, as far as gas and emissions go? The car will not be a daily driver so it does not need to be super streetable, but I do want it to be able to perform and most of all be fun to drive. I would hate to build a motor or buy one and then find out it is too tame. I have found an LT1 short block for sale in Canada for $2,000.00. Even though my intention was to build a stock LT1, I am going to take the advise very seriously to make sure that I get the best of both worlds. You mentioned a small block 427? Should I assume that going for more cubes is the way to go? Wait for it, I know that someone is going to tell me to just get a big block, which is of course always an option, but for some reason I am a small block guy? Reliving my crazy wild high school days. Perhaps its sentimental value? Thanks for all your help so far.

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post #7 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 04:44 PM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

I'd go with a ZZ4 crate engine. Runs on 93 octane, and similar performance to a 70 LT1. The only thing missing will be the sound of the LT1 cam, as the ZZ4 idles much smoother.

John
'67 SS/RS (RR)
'68 RS conv. (J2)
'68 Z/28 (VV)
'68 Drag Car(ZZ) 11.30 @ 118
'73 Corvette Drag Car 12.64 @ 106

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post #8 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 04:57 PM
 
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Look, an LT1 is a stroked 302 w/ the -178 cam in it instead of the 30-30 that GM ran in both the 302 and the 1st Mule LT1 350 engine that give it the 370 hp number.

You can build one easy enough if you want an LT1 clone engine, (fine by me), and then run the 30-30 cam and still run good pump gas in her on the street fine!

The old -178 cam is a fine slightly milder solid lifter street cam vs the old 30-30 but I'd run the 30-30 regardless, imho!!

pdq67



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post #9 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 06:47 PM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

I sure loved the one I built for my ski boat around 1974. It was upgraded to angle plug heads with peanut plugs. Even ran a windage tray and it sat in the boat BACKWARDS! I bought most of it right from my Chevy parts guy friend.
Even used the original Holley carb. Oh, and open dry headers. Now those were dangerous and violated every law of man and nature!

One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new
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post #10 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Now you know what I am talking about Fred. My motor had the off road racing cam design 1 which I think was called the "140" cam? It was crazy fun to drive. It was all stock with a little head, blueprinting work. It sure felt like it had at least 450 hp, with the headers and electronic ignition? It had the M22 and you could bury the 8000 RPM tac all day long and it just seemed to love it. That is what I am looking for. And oh yeah the sound is sooo important. I am building a 60's muscle car and I want it to sound and drive like one. There are lots of parts for sale right on this sight in the classified section. Infact everything I need to build the motor I have already found. However I am new to sourcing a bunch of parts from all over the country, also buying sight unseen, not to mention it will probably be quite expensive peice mealing the motor together, and then having it built. I'll tell you, if there is a crate motor out there that wil do all this, say the word and I wil order that baby up right now. Anyone know roughly how much money I am looking at in parts and labour to build that motor up right?

What do all the guys do with their vintage classic muscle cars that have original motors do? Do they have to use avation fuel or use a fuel additave? I am not oppossed to using an additive, but if there is a motor that does all this and runs on pump gas, that would be bonus!
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post #11 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Does anyone know how much HP an LT1 built properly would really put out, and how much HP would a ZZ4 put out? I am assuming the ZZ4 would come turn key? Also what would the cost for each motor be? Thanks
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post #12 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 07:55 PM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Like has already been stated, while the 70 LT1 was an awsome engine & not at all hard to duplicate the gas available in 1970 is long gone. If you have your mind made up that's what you want (complete with the 11-1 pistons) I would get real friendly with someone who does circle track racing. When I had my 69 Z/28 I used to buy Cam 2 racing gas at the track (115 octane I believe) and mix it 50/50 with unleaded premium. Of course at $6 or so a gallon the last time I checked it can get expensive real fast. Personally I like the GM fast burn engine if you want to go with a crate engine that has horsepower equal to the old LT1 and be able to run pump gas. In fact we have to run them in our Nascar Pro-Stock and on the dyno they actually perform better with pump gas than they do with leaded racing gas. http://www.gmhorsepower.com/Fast-Burn-385-Base.php
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post #13 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 09:26 PM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69z28freak View Post
.....
What do all the guys do with their vintage classic muscle cars that have original motors do? Do they have to use avation fuel or use a fuel additave? I am not oppossed to using an additive, but if there is a motor that does all this and runs on pump gas, that would be bonus!
Properly tuned 302s run fine on 92 octane.

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post #14 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 09:48 PM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

My 70 LT1Z will rattle like a coffecan full of marbles on pump gas with the timing bumped up where it runs really good. Crank it down to about 8* initial or so and it's okay.

But it's still on it's original GM build, nearly 60Kmi and 40 years old...

Driving a #s-matching Z in the rain..... and lovin' it....
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post #15 of 85 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 09, 10:25 PM
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Re: 1970 LT1 Motor Question

Hey I am all for E-85, but until it's more readily available, it's not an option for everyone. It's available for me, but I would have to drive for 45 minutes each way to fill up. That is not economical. He may not have access to it either. Plus, it's much easier to add a true tetraethyl lead substitute than it is to increase or decrease your CR. What does that involve? New pistons or heads with larger combustion areas? The tetraethyl lead substitute is easier and more economical.

I posted a link to the company that sells Octane Supreme 130. The company is called Kemco Oil. Here is the link:
http://kemcooil.com/products.php?cId=4

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