Engine Ticking and Runs Rough - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 09, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

I have a 69 SS/RS 396. A rotesserie was done about 10 years ago but not sure when engine was done.

I warmed up the car really well and started on my drive. Right out the bat I jumped on it going from 1st to 2nd...nothing too different than I normally do and floored it in 3rd for a little stretch. All of a sudden the car hesitated and a sound came from the engine like a part fell off the car and it loss power and started ticking. I drove the car home and pulled in into the garage. The car starts fine but is rough and ticks bad like the timing was off and every 3 sec or so the motor has a loud internal thump/clank.

There's black spots in the radiator....I think its oil.

Is this a blown head gasket or worse? I'm really worried. I thought these engines were pretty tough but I guess it could be due to its age.

Can someone help diagnose and help with process to repair.

Thanks
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 05:20 AM
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

Pull the dipstick to see the color of the oil - milky- oil & water.
Heavy metal sound - crankcase - rotating assembly problem.
Light metallic sound, ticking, like a pencil snapping, valvetrain problem-top of engine.

I suspect maybe a lifter broke and cracked something-hope not. Kind of hard to diagnose without looking visually.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

Thanks Everett.....I can always trust you to give good advise.

Pulled dip stick and it's not milky and no signs of water look fine but as noted above I see black specs in radiator.

With regards to the sound there is heavy ticking and every few seconds there's a loud thump coming from under the valve cover drivers side. On this same side toward the back of the head (firewall side) I notice a few drops of antifreeze. I think there's always been a little antifreeze residue in this area if I recall correctly.

I'm trying to determine.....do I pull motor and send to shop to have completely rebuilt.....due to the age of car and elimate future issues o(preventive maintenance) or address the cause of the problem now.

Everett....these engine are pretty strong right....I thought bullet proof.

Thanks again.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 08:04 AM
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

These engines, as any engine, are plenty strong providing all the parts involved are in good mechanical shape/repair and parts used are of good quality and fluid levels are where they should be.

I would trace the antifreeze trail to find visually where it would be coming from. It may be from the head-to-block interface and may be a faulty head gasket. You might even pull the driver side valve cover to view what's askew underneath for the noise. You might find a rocker arm misplaced, bent pushrod, leaky head bolt, leaky rocker arm stud, broken valve spring, or something out of the norm. Visual inspection is the key and the deciding factor whether you want to repair or have another repair.

It is your decision as to the repair route you decide to take. You know your limitations as to what you can do and keep in mind the available space needed to perform the work locally. if you chose to do it yourself. Tools available from your toolbox or can you rent them or borrow? Not a problem if you decide to have a vendor do the work for you, just keep the communication open and honest, but one advantage is the repair warranty of work performed - get it in writing and the conditions set forth - peace of mind for you because any vendor does not want a comeback.

Thanks for the vote of confidence - this is the reason of this forum - to help others to enjoy the hobby.

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 08:16 AM
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

Whoa guys, lets not get too far off the deep end here without some troubleshooting.

Pull the drivers side valve cover, now, this morning.

Reasonably certain you will firnd a rocker arm either twisted sideways, or snapped clean in half.
Along with that, you may have a bent up pushrod.

This could happen for a number of reasons, the simplest of which would be a loose fitting factory style rocker nut that just backed off of it's own accord.

Rockers, nuts, balls, and pushrods will be in stock at any autoparts store.





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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

Thanks Jim and Everett.

Jim, I'll pull the valve cover and inspect. I searched the site but can't find what the black specs in antifreeze is........oil or mixing of exhaust and do you guys know what this adds to diagnosing.

You know I did notice water drops coming from my tailpipe recently but it has been cooler here in So. Cal recently. The spots under the tailpipe is light gold like rust color. Not sure this has anything to do with it.

Thanks!
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 08:44 AM
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

Oil floats and if some is on your fingers, it will spread like oil from the dipstick as comparison.

There are litmous paper kits to check coolant for exhaust gases present as this procedure is one of the troubleshooting tools for a leaky head gasket.

Definitely pull the valve cover.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 01:12 PM
 
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

I'm w/ Jim here!

I pulled my old junk301 b/c I was young and stupid and didn't know better that I could have just installed a new p/r and rocker and went on!

But, then I had a full house .060" over, 11.5 to 1, 409 "W" engine w/ reworked big 2GC carb trips in the family room ready to replace it! So go figure!

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 05:29 PM
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

sounds like a dropped valve. pull the covers and see. major job if it dropped. if lucky a stuck lifter and bent push rod. in the closed position. you sound like you will be pulling the heads one way or another. good luck.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 05:58 PM
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

Had a similar thing happen on a sb, and turned out to be along the lines of Jim mentions above
The slots in the cast heads are also the giudes for the push rods, and where worn very slightly..
The rocker leaned over, bent the push rod and dropped the rocker off the valve
Couldnt at 1st figutre out the reason so replaced the rod and rocker, happened again
I noticed the wear then, but also noticed most of the rockers where not sitting exactly square on the valves...
Further investigation revevled the heads had been rebuilt about a yr before, measuring showed that the valve giudes where all milled a fraction off center.

So a combo of guides and head wear.

Soln was easy, replaced the rockers with late model ones...which have dimples either side of where the rocker centers on the the valve stem.
These have a special name that I cant rem for now.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 17th, 09, 06:28 PM
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

[quote=Steptoe;1141142

Soln was easy, replaced the rockers with late model ones...which have dimples either side of where the rocker centers on the the valve stem.
These have a special name that I cant rem for now.[/quote]

Self aligning rockers.

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 18th, 09, 06:42 AM
 
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

Guided rockers.

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 09, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

Well I pulled the valve cover off and sure enough I have one push rod that is bent and another that pushed through the rocker. I'm worried about piston damage. I guess next step would be to pull heads and inspect pistons?
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 09, 04:28 PM
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

I doubt very much if the valves have hit a piston, unless u have a very high luft cam and the heads been heavly plained

looking carefully down the spark plug holes will usually show any piston damage

I have often seen where a push rod goes thru a rocker due to fatigue on very high milage rockers and heavy valve springs been added
And a stud has pulled up causing excessive rocker lean and bend a push rod
Plus what I describe above
Check all the rockers sit square on the valve heads, as I described above
Replace rocker and rod, then turn the engine over by hand with all the spark plugs removed, and feel and listen for anything unsual.

When my rocker slipped off the valve stem , I had a transporter trailer on the tow bar with one of my vintage cars, was in the middle of nowhere , nursed everything home, clattering like hell for about 50 miles....since the valves where closed no damage.

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 09, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine Ticking and Runs Rough

No huge cam...everything stock. Will check all rockers and rods per your recommendation. Heck I might just replace them all to be safe. Can I replace rockers and rods without pulling heads?

Where can I buy the guided rockers and can someone recommend what type of push rods to buy? GM, aftermarket, etc?

Thanks!
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