*PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 09, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Steiner
 
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*PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Got the Summit Racing ceramic coated headers installed today, SUM-G9001-9. They are made in the USA, on sale right now for $170 and included gaskets for the headers and collectors, header bolts, collector bolts, and weld-on reducers with flanges for the exhaust. They are supposed to fit straight-plug SBC's in the '67-'69 with power steering, power brakes, floor shifted manual, floor or column shift auto, and no A/C. I have the power brake kit that is not yet installed but don't see how there will be an issue with clearance on the 11" booster.

Install took a couple of hours. I had to pull the temp probe, plugs, oil dipstick tube, distributor, clutch linkage, and jack the motor up a couple inches. I also had a cruddy pair to pull off. Kinda sucks because I just finished putting all that stuff back together and started the motor for the first time in seven years last Monday.

I took a few pics after putting a couple of bolts in to hold them in place and lowering the motor back down onto the mounts to check clearance. Everything clears great and I'm very pleased, especially considering the low price. The collectors wind up right where my old ones did and I've got a set of flex pipes on order to make a better connection there since I had some problems. My exhaust is the Flowmaster American Thunder 2-1/2" kit with H-pipe.












Last edited by Steiner; Mar 14th, 09 at 02:43 PM.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 09, 02:29 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Nice! I keep thinking about pulling the trigger and ordering a set for mine...... have you fired it up yet to see how well they seal up?

'68 Coupe 383 Small Block
4 speed Muncie (M 21)
12 bolt rear end (4.10)
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 09, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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Steiner
 
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Quote:
Originally Posted by EC's 327 View Post
Nice! I keep thinking about pulling the trigger and ordering a set for mine...... have you fired it up yet to see how well they seal up?
Nah. I just wanted to go ahead and make sure they fit to make sure I can keep them before I start my suspension rebuild and disc brake install. I think that some of the suspension comes apart easier with the headers out of the way. They're already back in the box.

The sealing surfaces look a lot dang better than what came off the car, I'll tell you that. These are nice and smooth. The old ones looked like they were cut with a bandsaw and never smoothed.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 09, 03:32 PM
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Todd
 
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

I have had my set of Summit brand headers for about 6 months and they fit very well. The only issue I have is that the drivers side collector sits kind of low and scrapes at every speed bump...I am not sure, but that may be an issue with all long tube headers ...
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 09, 09:34 PM
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Jeoffery J
 
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

It is an issue, especially if you have lowered your car. Mines lowered 2.5" and I scrape too. I'm thinking about switching to a slite different long tube and hope threr isn't too much to refab.

Jeoff J.
Buffalo , NY...Brrrr

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 08:21 AM
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Steiner,

I tried the exact same headers and had to return them because they were so tight against the passenger floorpan I couldn't tighten the header bolts. That, and there was no way the collector reducer would clear the trans crossmember. I have a 350 with Dart iron heads and Muncie M21, nothing unusual.

What kind of tranny do you have, and what motor mounts are you using? I can't figure out why my headers don't fit. I returned the Summit headers and got some Dynomax, which fit slightly better but still not right. Also, what kind of flex pipe are you using? Thanks.

Darrin




[QUOTE=Steiner;1178456]Got the Summit Racing ceramic coated headers installed today, SUM-G9001-9. They are made in the USA, on sale right now for $170 and included gaskets for the headers and collectors, header bolts, collector bolts, and weld-on reducers with flanges for the exhaust. They are supposed to fit straight-plug SBC's in the '67-'69 with power steering, power brakes, floor shifted manual, floor or column shift auto, and no A/C. I have the power brake kit that is not yet installed but don't see how there will be an issue with clearance on the 11" booster.

Install took a couple of hours. I had to pull the temp probe, plugs, oil dipstick tube, distributor, clutch linkage, and jack the motor up a couple inches. I also had a cruddy pair to pull off. Kinda sucks because I just finished putting all that stuff back together and started the motor for the first time in seven years last Monday.

I took a few pics after putting a couple of bolts in to hold them in place and lowering the motor back down onto the mounts to check clearance. Everything clears great and I'm very pleased, especially considering the low price. The collectors wind up right where my old ones did and I've got a set of flex pipes on order to make a better connection there since I had some problems. My exhaust is the Flowmaster American Thunder 2-1/2" kit with H-pipe.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 08:56 AM
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Maybe it's the angle but those look like ytuck up very well and maybe only the collector flange is exposed to the road for a scrape?

"If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn.......
Then, you have enough horsepower."
-Mark Donahue
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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Steiner
 
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfahy68 View Post
Steiner,

I tried the exact same headers and had to return them because they were so tight against the passenger floorpan I couldn't tighten the header bolts. That, and there was no way the collector reducer would clear the trans crossmember. I have a 350 with Dart iron heads and Muncie M21, nothing unusual.

What kind of tranny do you have, and what motor mounts are you using? I can't figure out why my headers don't fit. I returned the Summit headers and got some Dynomax, which fit slightly better but still not right. Also, what kind of flex pipe are you using? Thanks.

Darrin
Darrin,

Which bolts are you having trouble tightening? The reducer bolts or the header bolts at the head? I have a straight plug headed 350 and M20. Is yours the original combo? It wasn't by chance orginally a TH400 car, was it (the crossmember is different than all the others)? Is the reducer too high to clear the crossmember?

It sounds like you might possibly have a motor mount issue. There are two sets of frame/motor mount combos. Mine initially had the correct frame mounts and incorrect motor mounts so the engine sat too low. It sounds like yours is the opposite, a tall and a tall, although if they are factory mounts the tall motor mount shouldn't be able to slide over the tall frame mount. The 350 should have a "short" frame mount and a "tall" motor mount, at least on a '69. I have the correct original 350 frame mounts and the Anchor brand 2238 stock type motor mounts for a 396, which are the same as a 350 and 302. However, their parts application is wrong and they list the short mounts for a 350.

Here is a link to David Pozzi's site about motor mounts. There's no whay I would've figured my problem out without it:
http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm

As for the flex pipe, I bought two off eBay. They have a 4" flex section welded between two pieces of 2.5" ID pipe. My exhaust is 2.5" OD. I bought a set of 3" collectors from Summit with a 2.5" ID reducer, cut off a section of the flex pipe and a section of the reducer, and welded the flex and reducer together to make it as short as possible. I now have to see how much of the head pipe on my exhaust needs to come off and I will trim it, then slip the flex/reducer combo over the headpipe.

Here is a link to the ones I bought and a pic of mine:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flex-...mZ190258036467

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Harrison View Post
Maybe it's the angle but those look like ytuck up very well and maybe only the collector flange is exposed to the road for a scrape?
Yeah, but I balanced it out. My old headers were on with the wrong motor mounts (previous owner) so the engine sat too low. I now have the correct motor mounts but put in Eibach 1" lower springs.

They do seem to tuck well though. I don't think there will be enough room to rotate the collector around so that two of collector bolts can be fastened parallel to the ground however.

Hopefully in a couple more weeks I'll be able to finish up and get them in permanently to bolt up the exhaust. Latest trial....I was doing body mounts because I'm putting in subframe connectors and the cage holding the nut located in the worst spot broke off (driver's side middle). Now the brake lines and master cylinder have to come out for me to get to it to fix. Good thing I hadn't gotten the power brake and new hardline set in yet so it didn't have to all come apart and the old stuff has to come out anyway. Totally not the order things usually happen for me.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 12:09 PM
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

My car was originally a 327/glide. The motor mounts are not the original 327, but the frame mounts are. I would call these frame mounts "tall". I looked at Pozzi's web site, but I haven't had a chance to measure my motor mounts to see what I have. According to his site, I should have the 1 3/4" tall x 2 1/8" wide mount for 67, 68. These motor mounts are solid, but I don't know the dimensions. His site also says the height is different between LH and RH sides. Can a motor mount be on the wrong side? My car is a 68 btw.

When I bolt up the headers, the collector is literally snug against the passenger floor pan. The reducer won't even fit flat against the collector face because it (and the extension pipe on the exhaust) hits the bottom of the crossmember. I'm pretty sure the crossmember is the original for the car.
It has to be the motor mounts. I don't think anything else is different.

Thanks for your help.

[QUOTE=Steiner;1202034]Darrin,

Which bolts are you having trouble tightening? The reducer bolts or the header bolts at the head? I have a straight plug headed 350 and M20. Is yours the original combo? It wasn't by chance orginally a TH400 car, was it (the crossmember is different than all the others)? Is the reducer too high to clear the crossmember?

It sounds like you might possibly have a motor mount issue. There are two sets of frame/motor mount combos. Mine initially had the correct frame mounts and incorrect motor mounts so the engine sat too low. It sounds like yours is the opposite, a tall and a tall, although if they are factory mounts the tall motor mount shouldn't be able to slide over the tall frame mount. The 350 should have a "short" frame mount and a "tall" motor mount, at least on a '69. I have the correct original 350 frame mounts and the Anchor brand 2238 stock type motor mounts for a 396, which are the same as a 350 and 302. However, their parts application is wrong and they list the short mounts for a 350.

Here is a link to David Pozzi's site about motor mounts. There's no whay I would've figured my problem out without it:
http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm

As for the flex pipe, I bought two off eBay. They have a 4" flex section welded between two pieces of 2.5" ID pipe. My exhaust is 2.5" OD. I bought a set of 3" collectors from Summit with a 2.5" ID reducer, cut off a section of the flex pipe and a section of the reducer, and welded the flex and reducer together to make it as short as possible. I now have to see how much of the head pipe on my exhaust needs to come off and I will trim it, then slip the flex/reducer combo over the headpipe.

Here is a link to the ones I bought and a pic of mine:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flex-...mZ190258036467
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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Steiner
 
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfahy68 View Post
My car was originally a 327/glide. The motor mounts are not the original 327, but the frame mounts are. I would call these frame mounts "tall". I looked at Pozzi's web site, but I haven't had a chance to measure my motor mounts to see what I have. According to his site, I should have the 1 3/4" tall x 2 1/8" wide mount for 67, 68. These motor mounts are solid, but I don't know the dimensions. His site also says the height is different between LH and RH sides. Can a motor mount be on the wrong side? My car is a 68 btw.

When I bolt up the headers, the collector is literally snug against the passenger floor pan. The reducer won't even fit flat against the collector face because it (and the extension pipe on the exhaust) hits the bottom of the crossmember. I'm pretty sure the crossmember is the original for the car.
It has to be the motor mounts. I don't think anything else is different.

Thanks for your help.
Maybe that's it then. The correct motor mounts to use with a 327 frame mount is the Anchor 2267 which most chain parts stores carry. Mine had those on it with 350 frame mounts (shorts) and the oil pan sat on the front crossmember. You still have to make sure and measure the ones they give you because they kept specifying the short ones for a 350 with me.

The motor mounts cannot be mounted on the wrong side as they are the same for either side. I believe it is the position/part# for the frame mount that will change the distance between the frame and motor.

Your trans crossmember should be fine since all transmissions but the TH400 can use the same one.

They're not too bad to change out. You just need several extensions, a GOOD universal joint, and earplugs for everyone within a few blocks of your house. Take the headers loose and take the distributor cap off, and jack the motor up as far as it'll go, just like when you put the headers in.

You may actually want to go back with solids as the bolts will be a lot easier to get to with the engine in the car.

ALSO ONE MORE THING: I seem to remember having read somewhere that some aftermarket transmission mounts are also too tall. If you're not using a stock height one, this would also cause a problem.

Last edited by Steiner; Apr 21st, 09 at 05:56 PM.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 09:37 PM
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

Mine fit well.

Car has hotchkis 2" lowering springs. I go over speed bumps sloooww.

[U]1969 cloneish Z28
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350,9.6 comp,Vortec heads,Crane 274ho6,rpm air gap,Flowmaster
HEI,Holley 600 DP,4 speed 3.11 first,Hotchkis suspension,3.08 rear... need posi.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 09, 09:27 AM
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

I run these headers as well. 2 years later and they still look brand new. I run the 307/327 motor stands and Energy Suspension poly mounts for that application. No problem with clearances (though the passenger side was close to the floor). The only thing close is the oil filter and had to change to a shorter one.

Clearance problems for the floor could be affected by two things: (1) motor stands (as mentioned earlier) or (2) flat subframe mounts. Just a thought.

Hotchkis suspension here as well. Clears most everything. Slow on speed bumps and driveways.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old May 7th, 09, 08:01 PM
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

I had the exact same headers and Flowmaster exhaust and with my front end lowered 2 1/2" with Hotchkiss springs the header on the driver side was so low it bottomed out on speed bumps and just plain bumps at speed. So I just switched to Doug Thorley which fit better around the plugs and no clearance problem.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old May 8th, 09, 06:41 AM
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Re: *PICS* Summit Racing ceramic headers, '69 SBC, 4 speed, PS

[QUOTE=dfahy68;1201987]Steiner,

I tried the exact same headers and had to return them because they were so tight against the passenger floorpan I couldn't tighten the header bolts. That, and there was no way the collector reducer would clear the trans crossmember. I have a 350 with Dart iron heads and Muncie M21, nothing unusual.

What kind of tranny do you have, and what motor mounts are you using? I can't figure out why my headers don't fit. I returned the Summit headers and got some Dynomax, which fit slightly better but still not right. Also, what kind of flex pipe are you using? Thanks.

Darrin


I had the same issue with the set I ordered. I didn't even get to the driver's side. The passenger side collector hit the floorboard and wouldn't allow the header to bolt to the head. Not to mention how cheap the mounting flange looks. It's so thin and they didn't have the area to allow for the sending unit to be installed.

Charlie Knudsen 67 Camaro RS/SS 350 TKO 600, 4.10's, AFR 195 Street Heads, Comp 270H, Rhoads Lifters, Crane Ignition, Pertronix Dizzy, Performer RPM Q-Jet, Heavily Modified Q-Jet, Hooker Comp Headers, MagnaFlow 2 1/2", 144 Decibles(Alpine CDA-7998 Head Unit, RF X7 and RF 750X Amps, MB Quart Mid's & High's, Kicker L7 12" Solo Barics)
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