427 Small Block Build - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 09, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Tory
 
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427 Small Block Build

Hi Guys,
I am looking for information on the various Dart Blocks:

Little M
Special High Performance
Iron Eagle

What are the limitations of each block?

I am looking to build a 427 Small Block for my 55 Nomad.
I would like to run the car using Pump gas.

I also like the Brodix Track 1 Cylinder Heads, but am concerned about the angle plugs and header clearance. Any recommendations for Straight Plug Cylinder Heads?

I would also like to use a Callies 4340 Magnum Plus Crank and Callies Compstar H Beam Rods.
I am going to use a Roller Cam for my build. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Also, I am going to use a Vintage Air A/C Setup. The Nomad will not see the dragstrip very often. The Nomad will be primarily street driven.

I already have a 1957 Oldsmobile Posi Rear with a 3.64 Gear.
I also have a 200 4 R Stage 2 Transmission (CK Performance).

I know this is kind of vague and would like to hear your recommendations to make this build a reality.

Thank You in advance for your responses.

Tory
1968 Camaro Coupe
1964 Malibu SS Unrestored 36,000 Mile Survivor
1964 Malibu SS Hardtop
1966 Chevelle SS 396
1968 Malibu L-79, 1 of 4082 ~ SOLD
1955 Chevrolet Bel Air Unrestored 15,000 Mile Survivor
1955 Chevrolet Nomad
1984 Hurst Olds with Factory Sunroof, 1 of 99 ~ SOLD
1992 Camaro 396 LS, 4L60, 9" Posi w /3.50:1 Gear Set
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 09, 04:59 AM
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

I built a 427 small block using a world product block!! I will post my spec for you..
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 09, 07:32 AM
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

What kind of performance or HP are you trying to reach?

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel body shaft rockers, Cloyes Timing set, custom ground 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050" with .704" lift, Dart single plane, Holley Dominator EFI on E85, Injector Dynamics ID2000 Injectors, Stef's #1705R oil pan, F2 Procharger, Lemons 2" primary 4" collector, ATI 9" blower converter
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 09, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

My Horsepower goal is 650. Am I being realistic?

Tory
1968 Camaro Coupe
1964 Malibu SS Unrestored 36,000 Mile Survivor
1964 Malibu SS Hardtop
1966 Chevelle SS 396
1968 Malibu L-79, 1 of 4082 ~ SOLD
1955 Chevrolet Bel Air Unrestored 15,000 Mile Survivor
1955 Chevrolet Nomad
1984 Hurst Olds with Factory Sunroof, 1 of 99 ~ SOLD
1992 Camaro 396 LS, 4L60, 9" Posi w /3.50:1 Gear Set
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 09, 09:41 PM
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

As far as the blocks go, the SHP is a high performance replacement for a stock block and is rated to 600HP. At 650HP you should be fine with this block and they cost about $1,450.

The Little M is a stouter piece and should be able to handle 1,000HP or more and depending on the configuration cost between $2,100 and $2,600.

The Iron Eagle is the only one of the 3 that is available in 9.025", or 9.325" deck height. It also has wider pan rails for longer stroke cranks, no provision for an oil filter, raised cam location and SBC or BBC cam bearings. This block will handle about 2,000HP and costs almost $3,000.

The Iron Eagle is also the only one available in aluminum. Like the cast iron version it is available in 9.025", 9.325" deck in addition to 9.500". This one sells for more than $5,000.

The Callies Compstar crank and rods are a good choice. I have not used them but have heard good things.

Have you driven a car with this much HP? In a 3,000 pound car that much power should go high 9's or low 10's. If it is a street only car you would be better off with 550HP. It would not need as much compression or camshaft and would be more streetable.

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel body shaft rockers, Cloyes Timing set, custom ground 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050" with .704" lift, Dart single plane, Holley Dominator EFI on E85, Injector Dynamics ID2000 Injectors, Stef's #1705R oil pan, F2 Procharger, Lemons 2" primary 4" collector, ATI 9" blower converter
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 09, 02:29 AM
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Steiner
 
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

I think those blocks can go out to 0.120" over or so.

Carolina Machine builds a complete 550hp 434 for under $7k that I think uses a Dart block. Not sure though. They offer them in complete, long block, and short block. You have to drop back to the 500hp model to get the one year warranty on the complete version as the 550hp one has a 90 day warranty.
http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/Per...3/Default.aspx

For heads, the best way to go for off-the-shelf header fitment may be a CNC'ed set of Dart Pro's since they offer a straight plug and non-raised exhaust port....I think.

For a street small block, 650hp on all motor is not going to be too friendly. A supercharger or nitrous shot on a milder motor may be better.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 09, 11:22 AM
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

Are the Track 1 heads ported? They don't flow well out of the box, especially the exhaust port. If you haven't purchased them, I'd look at other brands for sure.

69 Camaro, 3650lbs., 400ci, TH400, Coan 10" converter, 3.50 gear
D1SC, pump gas, street car, Water/Meth injection
1.302 60', 5.956 @ 116.4 Super Sniper EFI 2019
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 09, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

My 68 Camaro has a 460 hp 383 and in all honesty, the novelty has already worn off. I definitely want something streetable, but want to get to the point where I almost reach the line of unstreetable without crossing the line . A Supercharger is definitely an option.
I was in Tampa, Florida last month and there is a person named Greg (I do not remember the name of his shop) who swears by the LS Based motors. I am still old school and like the Chevrolet Small Block as we know it. He runs them with fuel injection and a computer and the power numbers are incredible with streetability. He was working on a 10 Second 434 Cubic Inch Corvette. The kicker was that the Factory A/C was still working despite all of the changes. I want to go with a different approach to get as much streetable power as possible.
Keep the suggestions coming. I really appreciate it.

Tory
1968 Camaro Coupe
1964 Malibu SS Unrestored 36,000 Mile Survivor
1964 Malibu SS Hardtop
1966 Chevelle SS 396
1968 Malibu L-79, 1 of 4082 ~ SOLD
1955 Chevrolet Bel Air Unrestored 15,000 Mile Survivor
1955 Chevrolet Nomad
1984 Hurst Olds with Factory Sunroof, 1 of 99 ~ SOLD
1992 Camaro 396 LS, 4L60, 9" Posi w /3.50:1 Gear Set
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 09, 12:06 PM
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaros-n-Chevelles View Post
My 68 Camaro has a 460 hp 383 and in all honesty, the novelty has already worn off. I definitely want something streetable, but want to get to the point where I almost reach the line of unstreetable without crossing the line . A Supercharger is definitely an option.
I was in Tampa, Florida last month and there is a person named Greg (I do not remember the name of his shop) who swears by the LS Based motors. I am still old school and like the Chevrolet Small Block as we know it. He runs them with fuel injection and a computer and the power numbers are incredible with streetability. He was working on a 10 Second 434 Cubic Inch Corvette. The kicker was that the Factory A/C was still working despite all of the changes. I want to go with a different approach to get as much streetable power as possible.
Keep the suggestions coming. I really appreciate it.
You could build a really streetable 427 with a procharger and reach or exceed your goal of 650HP.

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel body shaft rockers, Cloyes Timing set, custom ground 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050" with .704" lift, Dart single plane, Holley Dominator EFI on E85, Injector Dynamics ID2000 Injectors, Stef's #1705R oil pan, F2 Procharger, Lemons 2" primary 4" collector, ATI 9" blower converter
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 09, 12:15 PM
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaros-n-Chevelles View Post
My 68 Camaro has a 460 hp 383 and in all honesty, the novelty has already worn off. I definitely want something streetable, but want to get to the point where I almost reach the line of unstreetable without crossing the line . A Supercharger is definitely an option.
I was in Tampa, Florida last month and there is a person named Greg (I do not remember the name of his shop) who swears by the LS Based motors. I am still old school and like the Chevrolet Small Block as we know it. He runs them with fuel injection and a computer and the power numbers are incredible with streetability. He was working on a 10 Second 434 Cubic Inch Corvette. The kicker was that the Factory A/C was still working despite all of the changes. I want to go with a different approach to get as much streetable power as possible.
Keep the suggestions coming. I really appreciate it.
Your friend in Fla is right. you cant beat the LS motors.

Here is a 12k formula..... Drop out LS2 and t56 drop out from an 06 GTO. 6K motor and tranny with all accessories A/C computer ect...
Headers motor plate and other conversion goodies.. 1K
Magnasun Super charger 5K.... 550+ Rear Wheel HP perfect streeability and 26 mpg Hwy.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 09, 05:49 PM
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Re: 427 Small Block Build

I have a Little M 421 with T-1 CNC 227 heads, a Callies Magnum crank(3.875 Stroke) and Compstar rods. I have Diamond forged pistons and my CR is 14.3:1. It is a purpose built juice motor and dynoed naturally aspirated at 642 to 648HP( 10 pulls worst to best). Not street material unless you define it like I do,,,,,occasional short jaunts to get your blood pumping.

The crank is a work of art, and the imported Compstar rods machined in America are damn fine looking.

Yeah the T-1's and headers are a mild problem, but I get by with a set of Schoenfeld 1 7/8". Have to pull them to do about half the plugs, and there's 1 or 2 you can't ghet the wire on without loosening the header bolts. Also had to pull all the bolts from the drivers side header to do an oil filter until I remote mounted it. But that's due to a kickout pan. I have a set of 1 3/4 Dynomax headers that just flat won't work on the T1's. Hit #3 plug bigtime.

I had Mike Lewis flow 1 port on my heads while he was re-working them. And they flowed within a few feet of what Brodix website says, which iirc is 318 at .700

But on the dyno it was obvious heads was killing me, could not get over 735CFM into that engine with either my Race Demon 775RS(flows 935) or my 1050 Dom. It made the 648 on the Dom, but gosh it was all over on afr. The Race Demon is a superior all-round carb to my 8082 Dom. And as it worked out, the guy that owned the dyno knew my Dom from horse trades it had been through and his attitude was " oh yeah I know THAT Dom, it is BAD". End of day he was pretty impressed by my BG.

When I bought my heads 3 or 4 years ago I bought the BEST AVAILABLE that I knew of. If I had to do it all over again I would spend far more money and get what I now know is available and that is spec built heads from one of them bigboys like Larry Meaux. I would just call Mike Lewis and banter awhile and get some of them. All the poop has the new AFR's as damn good stuff, but I would be surprised if anything off the shelf would do within 10 or 20 HP of the T-1 CNC head.

I would also shoot the breeze with Mike Lewis on the pros/cons of a different degree engine than a 23. Yeah, more money. That's a given. I mean stuff like availability, dependability, power increase vs cost etc.

But all things considered I was a bit let down by the power of a 14:1 engine compared to my previous engine which was an 11.3:1 flat topped pump-gas 412 sbc. Just not that much more there because you get limited by air flow on a 23 engine.

From threads here and other forums, I personally wouldn't touch the World block.

I bought my block from Carl Hinkson(CNCNE username) in Maine and his work is 2nd to none. I will give him an A+ for an immaculate block and I am very critical of cleanliness. He is damgood people and goes out of his way to help you. His # is 207-892-7215. It will go to his answering machine usually, but he always calls you back if you leave a message. The guy is a workaholic who almost never sleeps, and he gives a damn after the sale. He called me out of the blue about a year after the sale to see how things were going. Good guy.

Mike Lewis (wolfplace username at Team Chevelle) is who I got my rotating assembly from and he is in California, his # is 707-984-6103. He is damgood people too and will help you any way he can. I have called him on Saturdays, and emailed him on other projects and he is just always helpful. I have even called him to raz him about stuff on the forums.

Both these guys are super knowledgeable, and they worked together with me on my project. I asked them up front if they would collaborate together with the block on 1 coast and the guts on the other. They did great for me.

There is another guy I would talk to and that is Mark (Vortecpro). I've never dealt with him but he has a great reputation. If I ever delve into BBC's I will call him. He also does small blocks I know from 1 dude at the other TC, but I really can't recall Mark posting a lot on sbc's. He is in Colorado, and that would be just a little 8 hour ride for me if I bought pieces from him, then I could see his shop and dyno, maybe haul something up there and dyno it. My flat-topped 412 won't get out of my head. I still have all those parts.

Tim Smith
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