Small Block mounted as a Big block? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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Small Block mounted as a Big block?

I think (after 15 years), I may have discovered that my 67 Camaro small block is mounted on Big Block engine stands...First of all--is this even possible?

Here's why: I have been trying to fight some demons in my cooling system (started a thread called "running hot")...what I have found is that I have a 23" radiator and a small block fan shroud with A/C to for the 23" core 4 row big block. The fan sits closer to the pass. side of the shroud than it does to the driver side (not centered in the shroud). I measured my small block from air cleaner stud to fender, and came up with 25.5 inches to the driver fender and 25 inches to the passenger fender...

I am using a small block transmission crossmember for my Muncie (and I did not think much of it before I REALLY started thinking about this), but I did have to "lever" the tranmission slightly to get the trans mount bolt holes to line up with the holes in the transmissione crossmember (not a lot of force to lever it, just a little bit to get the holes to line up (they were off by anout1/2 a bolt hole).

Sorry for the long-winded message, but what do you think?

If it is even possible to mount a small block as a big block, is it worth the PIA of pulling the motor to mount it on fresh small block frame stands, or shoudl I just get a big block transmission crossmemebr and shroud and call it "good"

PS. I have been runnig the car like this for years without issue!


OR AM I WAAAAY OVER-THINKING THIS THING?

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
GM 8.5, 3.73 posi
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 04:21 PM
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

It's definitely possible. I run small block mounts on my big block to center the driveline. I'd at least put the correct cross member in the car if you don't change the motor mounts.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 04:55 PM
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

If you have BBC stands, the pass side will be shorter in height than the drvr side.

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
It's definitely possible. I run small block mounts on my big block to center the driveline. I'd at least put the correct cross member in the car if you don't change the motor mounts.

Will the big block crossmember move the transimssionmmounting holse "forward"? I thought I had read somewhere, that at the tranny croossmember, it is not only an issue of "offsetting the" holes about 1/2 inch, but also moves them forwar d3/4 of an inch--that would pose a problem for me...unless I were to "modify" the crossmember...

Also, the shifter in the car is already pretty close to the right hand side of the console when in 3rd and 4th gear...not sure I have a 1/2 in play there...

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
GM 8.5, 3.73 posi
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

One other really odd thing--I did havea small block crossmemebr in the car when I had my TH 400, and lingin up th ebolt holes never required any "leverage"...

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
GM 8.5, 3.73 posi
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 08:37 PM
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Smile Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Yes, you can install a big block engine on small block frame stands or a small block on big block frame stands. Those of you who "think" that they have centered their drive shaft, by putting a Big block on small block stands, you haven't. The rear ends on all GM rears is offset to the passenger side 1/2 of an inch. That means a big block set up is just as straight.
You probably have more right side weight with the engine not really being on center. In the vertical plane, the engine and rear end are offset any way.

The big block frame stands are taller on the drivers side, causing the engine to "roll" towards the passenger side approximately 1", measured at the carburetor's air cleaner stud. They then offset the transmission 1/2" to the passenger side, to keep the transmission output shaft parallel with the rears pinion shaft.

Keith, The Chevrolet TH-400 crossmember is a Big Block (offset crossmember). The only way to get a "small block" TH-400 crossmember, is to get a Pontiac Firebird crossmember.




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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

I've looked closely...I think the driver side stand is taller that the passenger side...I guess I'll pick up a big block cross member--I guess if that does not fix the issue, I can always send it back!

Will this also mess with the shifter in the car? I don't have alot of room for error on that!

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Also, so aside from it not being "correct," if I utilize abig block crossmember and shroud, there are no real operational issues?

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 09, 10:23 PM
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Smile Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Keith, Why not leave it as is ? That isn't causing your cooling problem. If it has been that way for years, just leave it be.

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 09, 04:48 AM
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Agree, if alignment is okay and you have not experienced problems with this configuration, don't fix it.

Look for your cooling malady elsewhere.

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 09, 05:15 AM
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjs69 View Post
keith, why not leave it as is ? That isn't causing your cooling problem. If it has been that way for years, just leave it be.
true ,unless your just trying to be correct???
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 09, 05:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Not trying to be correct, but after looking closely, the motor does not seem "square" in the engine bay any more, since converting to a muncie trans...

There appears to be a very slight slant, front passenger side closer that rear passenger sid eof the motor...that can't be good for the driveline!

Maybe it has always been like that, and I am just now overhtinking the issue...

My other thought (what started this whole thing, is that the colling fan is not centered, which is why I cannot run a "stock fan and clutch (the fan hit shte passenger side of the shroud)...not abig deal, as it does not overheat, but just another thought...

I'd like to get the driveline in parellel...

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
GM 8.5, 3.73 posi
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 09, 05:41 AM
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Get correct frame stands. You can change them without pulling the engine.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 09, 05:45 PM
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigVin View Post
Get correct frame stands. You can change them without pulling the engine.
True.....it can be done....but it's a test of patience . Imo, one would accomplish that job just as quick...maybe even quicker by removing the engine to install new frame mounts...again jmo.

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 09, 06:43 PM
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Re: Small Block mounted as a Big block?

Using a box end wrench inside the crossmember, run duct tape across the bottom of the closed end to prevent dropping the hardware inside and being gone forever..........

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