454 in 1st gen ? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 09, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
TsX
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Tim
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 54
454 in 1st gen ?

Hello,

soon i am starting on an engine project.

i have a 67 camaro, original a 250 6cyl with a four speed manual.
but the previous owner swapped it with a (69) 327 V8.
the block itself has multiple problems.
burning oil, stinks like hell.
a worn out or wrong spec carburator.
broken fuel pump and leaking waterpump.
recently a freeze plug also started leaking.

anyway, i allready puchased a 454 with a th400 in good condition.
so now i am seeking parts and good! advice for this project.

i have a lot of questions.
what do i still need, what would make everything easier ?

*engine mounts
i also am swapping the engine mounts. i have mounts that fit
the block and mounts for the frame side, but will they fit ?
can anyone tell me what i need ?
what bolts should i use for the frame side ?
the previous owner welded them to the frame...


what headers can i use ? as i do not have any originals...

i presume the crossmember also needs changing ?

do i need a longer drive shaft ?

should i swap the rear axle, or upgrade it ?

soon i will be placing an order at summit, so a direct link to the part would be very nice.

thanks in advance,
Tim
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 09, 06:47 PM
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Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

Have done the BBC thing. Did you purchase all the brackets and pulleys for the BBC, those are hard to locate . Log on to Ricks Performance for the frame stand and engine mounts/bolts. Check the cross member the bolt holes are different for the small block. Hooker or Hedman fit, check clearance for power steering so you minimize custom dimpling the headers. The oil pan may hit the cross member so be sure you have the correct cross member. Rear axle is a safe bet, you can get a new Superior kit with bearings from summit at a reasonable price....shipping charges to Belgium may be high ! Talk to the guys at Summit as they are cool, they walked me through all my parts, including alum heads, clutch, suspension parts etc. good luck
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 09, 08:59 AM
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Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

Welcome to TC Tim!

If you search "big block swap" here, there are many, many threads, some including relatively complete lists of everything needed.

Using the TH400 will make things easier, because that was the available trans behind the 396 cars. As long as it is a car TH400 (short tailshaft) you should be able to just get the TH400 (tubular) crossmember for a 67-69 Camaro.

Once you search and start reading, you will find info about converting the heater core, which engine frame stands you need, etc. There are also discussion on what headers fit without (much) difficulty.

As far as the rear axle goes, it depends on what is in it and how you plan to drive the car. If it is the OE rear, it is an 8.2 inch 10-bolt. That rear is not very strong, and parts to upgrade it are not common or cheap even here in the States. Lots of guys (me included) changed to an 8.5 inch 10-bolt from a 72-79 X-body (Nova, Ventura, Omega, Apollo, and later Skylark). The other choices would be a 12-bolt (either OE or new), a modified Ford 9-inch, or something like that.

Eric
69 'vert project big block/TKO 600 RR
68 'vert driver RS clone -- gone!
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 09, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
TsX
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Tim
 
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Location: Belgium
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Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

@macdon:
brackets and pulley were all included.
it a complete block with waterpump, Hei (will be swapped with a new one),
powersteering pump and also an aircocompressor.

so you would revise the rear axle ?

shipping (AND import taxes!) do indeed cost quite a bit.
but a hobby has to cost money.

this is going to be my second order at summit,
so i already know they're cool.

@ Eric: thanks. will do some searching.

do you have a page where i can decode the TH400 ?
don't know. it came out of a suburban...

i'm not planning on doing much quarter mile runs, if that what you mean.
it's i presume an original 10 bolt. PA coded, so 3.08
problem is to find a 12 bolt here + the possible difference in offset
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 09, 07:03 AM
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Charlie
 
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Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

Go with the 454, but I would keep the 4spd and lose the TH400. Why go from an manual to an auto? You are not going to pick up any highway cruising by switching to the auto so why lose the feel for banging the gears. Do the 454, but sell the th400 to fund the project. As for the rear, go to Currie or a place of your choice and get a new 12bolt. You could go with the 9", but if you don't plan on racing it, you don't need it. The 9" is much heavier than a 12bolt and even though it gives you a 3rd pinion gear tooth contact on the ring gear at all times and the pinion gear also gets a rear support bearing, but it's overkill for a street only car. If this is going to be a street car, you are going to want to go with gearing that will give you a happy medium as far as performance and highway cruising. Something like a 3.08 or 3.31 will work well. If you really want to do it right and want the best of both worlds, go with either a t-56 or a tko-600 and a 3.73 or a 4.10 rear. I run a tko and 4.10's and it's AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At 60mph, I am turning 2000rpm and when the light turns green, the 4.10's coupled with the 2.87 1st gear make the car leave like a bullet. If it were me, I would sell both the 4spd and the th400 and get yourself and overdrive 5 or 6spd, but that's just me.

Charlie Knudsen 67 Camaro RS/SS 350 TKO 600, 4.10's, AFR 195 Street Heads, Comp 270H, Rhoads Lifters, Crane Ignition, Pertronix Dizzy, Performer RPM Q-Jet, Heavily Modified Q-Jet, Hooker Comp Headers, MagnaFlow 2 1/2", 144 Decibles(Alpine CDA-7998 Head Unit, RF X7 and RF 750X Amps, MB Quart Mid's & High's, Kicker L7 12" Solo Barics)
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 09, 07:59 AM
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Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

If his 4-speed is OE, it is a cast iron Saginaw with a 3.11 1st, 2.20 2nd, 1.47 3rd, and 1:1 4th. Neat trans to have behind the L6, but unlikely to last long behind a 454...

Tim, as far as identifying which TH400 you have, there should be a tag riveted to it on the passenger side of the main case. See the tag example at this link: http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#trans

If the tag is still on it, you can post the codes and we can figure it out. A pic would also help determine which tailshaft it has.

Eric
69 'vert project big block/TKO 600 RR
68 'vert driver RS clone -- gone!
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 09, 08:22 AM
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Craig
 
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Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

Dont know if it was mentioned yet but you'll need big block springs on the front end for the added engine weight. Also the heater box on the firewall is different for big blocks.

1968 454 TH350 Red with Black vinyl top

Last edited by cmking26; Oct 22nd, 09 at 10:30 AM.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 09, 09:26 AM
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Ted
 
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Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

Didn't see it mentioned but I might have missed it. But you will probably want to go with a BB radiator and shroud also.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 09, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
TsX
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Tim
 
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Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

@67camaroRS/SS: i prefer the auto. here everybody drives stick, and an automatic is always optional. so its considered more exclusive. if i had way to much cash i would
buy a tremec, but it's just to much over budget. i still have the rest of the car to do too...

@Eric: i presume that it indeed is the OE saginaw.
the saginaw allready has some synchro issues and a chafing clutch.
so i am surely switching it to the 400.
the tag is on it, but it has a pink tag ... ???
i'll post some pic's for sure.

@ cmking and tgifford:
i am thinking on converting the springs to airride.
had this on my previous (european) car.
i'll do some research concerning the heater.
the radiator will be replaced with a bigger Aluminium one incl. a electric fan.
allready have that stashed at the attic.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 09, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
TsX
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Tim
 
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Location: Belgium
Posts: 54
Re: 454 in 1st gen ?

@eric,

made a pic.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2852/image1wz.jpg
it's 71cm, about 28" long, not including the yoke.

i just can't find what the FP stands for on the tag.
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