Question about rocker arm alignment - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 09, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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Derek
 
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Question about rocker arm alignment

I know this is not normal, but it is the only way it will rest on the valve. Will this cause any long term problems? I just bought this crate motor, and I am not sure what to think of this. Thanks for any imput.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 09, 04:05 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

What guide plates do you have?
Your guide plates should guide the pushrods so the rockers sit on the valves properly.
I personally, would not run this engine as is. The side loading may lead to (catastophic?) problems I feel.

Nov 68 Van Nuys. 327 floor-shift-auto, Frost Green and not much else when new.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 09, 04:37 AM Thread Starter
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Derek
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

I do not know what kind they are, but I dont think they are adjustable. I bought a complete crate motor and this is how it looked when I took the valve cover off. All of the other rockers line up fairly well.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 09, 04:45 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Something's a miss. Try swapping with another guide plate and see it it lines up.

I bought brand new Edelbrock heads and the supplied guide plates were bad.
Edelbrock were very good about it and sent me a replacement set for free, but it's a possibility, -especially with all the Chinese sh!t around today.

Nov 68 Van Nuys. 327 floor-shift-auto, Frost Green and not much else when new.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 09, 06:13 AM
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Ron
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Valve Guide Alignment is part of the Engine Building procedure. It is not uncommon to Bend the Plates (including OEM or ARP), Squeeze and File the Forks or cut the plates in two for tight push rod guide clearance and squarely align the Rocker Tips on the Valve stem. I doubt very much a New Set of Guide Plates will be any different. For that matter, you will find that you have to align plates by tapping them into position while you torque the Rocker Studs. I usually # my Guide Plates for their respective position after working them. This helps when you have to dismantle things.

I would call the people from whom you bought the engine and question or get an update about their assembly procedures. If you found that I doubt if the tappets have been preset. I would take the Oil Pan off and Pull the Bearing Caps for inspection and blow out the Oil Galleries. One of the biggest things is Machine Filings left in mass assembled Engines.

If that Engine has been fired, I would suspect that the tappets were not set and you may have bent a Push Rod and possibly have damaged the Cam.

Before firing up a New Engine always pull the plugs and rotate it manually on the Damper Bolt using a Torque wrench to verify Resistance, Adjust Tappets and feel for Rubs. Never trust a Machine Shop assembler for this they are not Mechanics. If you can't do this get someone you know and trust who can.

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Last edited by Z15CAM; Oct 25th, 09 at 06:54 AM.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 09, 09:37 AM
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

What brand of heads are those ? That is one of the problems with Pro Comp heads. Also who built the crate engine ?

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 09, 05:12 PM
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AJ
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Pro Comp and especially Patriot heads have the problem you have.
You can get adjustable guide plates to move the roller square on the tip of the valve where they need to be, BUT your rockers are most likely not going to be parallel like they should be.

This is caused by inferior machining from over seas, the spring pockets and how the heads are drilled for studs and springs is in the entirely wrong location.
FWIW my rockers are not parallel and I run my engine to 7,000rpm on occasion with 7/16 studs and a good set of push rods.

BBC rockers aren't parallel either and they run fine.

The only Mustang I'd ever own is a Fender.

'68 333" Camaro
'14 5.0 Mustang
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 09, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Derek
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Infinate Power and Design in Fairview PA. Ive had a lot of problems from this company. Yes, they are ProComps lol...I was waiting for someone to say something. That's what I figured...I will try and purchase some adjustable guide plates and go from there. Thanks.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 09, 06:45 AM Thread Starter
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Derek
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Aces...you say your rockers look like the one in my picture?? And you havn't had any problems?

Is this something that I absolutely have to fix immediately, or just when I get around to it. Im trying to figure out how significant of a problem this really is, and what type of "castastrophic" failure I could experiene if I dont correct the problem.

I plan on fixing the problem, or at least band aiding it, but I would like to know what would happen if i didnt....For learning purposes.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 09, 12:24 PM
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Steve
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

For the sake of fitting a simple guide plate, I'd fix it.

Nov 68 Van Nuys. 327 floor-shift-auto, Frost Green and not much else when new.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 09, 02:52 PM
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AJ
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Yes, we broke the engine in with the one piece guide plates provided, the engine made a sewing machine flat tappet cammed noise, we figured it would go away once everything was broken in, after 20min of run time, the noise was still there, later we noticed the rollers were contacting the sides of the valve tip and on the spring a little, we tried to adjust the one piece plates, it didn't work, we called the head manufacturer and they sent us 2 piece guide plates, got the rollers on the valves where they need to be, they are in no way parallel but the only way they will contact the valve tip fully is to be angled, so what can I do, I just run them like that until I can buy a better set of heads and throw the patriots in the local dump. I have ran mine up to 7,000rpm and haven't had any problems. The motor is still a little noisy.


Check for coil bind with those springs, mine say they are good to .550" and I run .490" of lift and they look like they are about maxed out. If you have 7/16 studs, you should be fine, if you have the 3/8's studs, you will probably snap a stud off running the rockers like that.

In the top pic you can see the adjustable guide plates, they help the rollers line up on the valve tips, but there is absolutley no way to get the rockers parallel, the heads are machined entirely wrong.


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'14 5.0 Mustang
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 09, 06:59 PM
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Walter
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace's68 View Post
we called the head manufacturer and they sent us 2 piece guide plates, got the rollers on the valves where they need to be, they are in no way parallel but the only way they will contact the valve tip fully is to be angled, so what can I do, I just run them like that until I can buy a better set of heads and throw the patriots in the local dump. I have ran mine up to 7,000rpm and haven't had any problems. The motor is still a little noisy.

In the top pic you can see the adjustable guide plates, they help the rollers line up on the valve tips, but there is absolutley no way to get the rockers parallel, the heads are machined entirely wrong.
John,

My $1500 SBC AFRs were the same way. I can understand that with the BBC's, with their 2* rolled valves, as they are that way on my $2500 BBC AFRs, but not the SBC's. ???? You have it as good as it is going to get. As long as the roller tip is centered, it will be fine for many miles.

Walter
69 Chevelle SS
10.5-1 496/AFR 305's/Voodoo 60234 Solid Roller/TH400 4000 Stall/4.11 12 Bolt

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 09, 07:43 PM
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Royce
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

You will more than likely not get hem perfect, but the one in the picture is a bit extreme and I would try to fix it. Your guide plates will need to be modified and sometimes you even have to open up the holes in the head as well. I wouldn't blame the problem on the parts, it's the shop that built your engine, they should havea ddressed this issue.

Royce (NO XQSSS) Bradley

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 26th, 09, 08:19 PM
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by camaroman7d View Post
I wouldn't blame the problem on the parts, it's the shop that built your engine, they should havea ddressed this issue.
That's the part that's always worried me about "crate engines."

A problem like that would not even have slipped by the guys rebuilding thousand dollar remanufactured short blocks for napa. A brand new high performance engine should be more than just "thrown together."

What else did they miss?
did they notice that the small ends on the chinese rods were so undersized that the floating pins were close to press fit, or that the big ends were so wide there was no connecting rod side play at all?
What are the other clearances?
Did anyone even check?





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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 27th, 09, 06:18 AM Thread Starter
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Derek
 
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Re: Question about rocker arm alignment

Those are all questions I have been asking myself for several weeks. The good part is that the motor has a one year warranty. The bad part is that I live 300 miles from the shop. Would a dremmel tool with a grinding stone get the job done? When I take the guide plate off, anyone know how much I need to torque it back down to? Thanks for all your help.
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