572 or 427 - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Paul
 
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572 or 427

well guys i have a 454 bored .030 block all machined and ready to go along with 396 crank and propane heads that were converted to gas and have the biggest valves in them know to man. got them off a friend at a very good price. i can finish the long block minus the intake and carb for about $2400. I want it to run on pump fuel and was wondering what you guys would do as i have a chance to get a very good deal on a 572 long block pushing 800hp for 7k. my friend said him and his machinist were talking about 700 to 800hp on pump fuel with the 427 "431". Is that possible on pump fuel as that is a lot of horse per cui naturally aspirated with somewhat low compression to run on 91 octane? I wish i had some specs on the heads but need to take them up to get specs as he lost the info on them but they are huge.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 10:23 AM
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Re: 572 or 427

You can make that much HP with a 427 but it will take really good after market heads, lots of compression and a large roller cam. It would be easier to make that much power with a 496 or 572. But even with a 572 it won't be easy to build 800HP N/A on pump gas. The pump gas 572 sold by Chevy is rated at 600HP and the race version is rated at 700HP.

What are your goals and budget for this car? With 700HP in a 3,400 pound car it should run low 10's or high 9's.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 572 or 427

well i got about 10k more i can spend on the engine but would like to save 3k of that to put in a new 9" for the rear $1600 and a stage three th400 $1100. so a good 7k left. the compression i would like to keep under 11 to 1. in all honesty i would be happy with 700hp out of the 427. like i said the heads are unbelievably huge. they are maxed out and had over 1k just in machine work on them and that was by his good friend. the 572 would just be greed lol so i could say i had more horse then my father-in-laws 604 cui with 739hp. i would definately like to have a 9 sec street car. i'm also torn on the gear ratio to choose. i will take the car on the highway at times and would like to go 70 at a comfortable speed. what type of rearend is it that you can switch out gears in like an hour so i could have my street gears and also my strip gears as that is another route i might take. thanks for the help guys. If i can get the 427 there i would be happy as that would save a lot of money. also trying to find a budget 8-71 or 10-71. passed on one awhile back for $2300 dollars with full setup and im still sick over it.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 11:01 AM
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Re: 572 or 427

Paul, I think you would have to change your 67cam427 handle if you went to the 572, or not? I guess I would stick with the 427, but the 572 is tempting.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 572 or 427

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcm66 View Post
Paul, I think you would have to change your 67cam427 handle if you went to the 572, or not? I guess I would stick with the 427, but the 572 is tempting.
lol didnt think about the name change nooooooo. yeah i want to stay with the 427 but man that 572 is just so tempting and its done! and the wife actually didnt say i couldnt just that she didnt agree lol, but we all know they never agree with anything however they rarely say do what you want!
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 11:26 AM
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Re: 572 or 427

The 572 should have a tall deck block which means you won't be able to use your intake and your headers may not fit.

If it was me I would stay with the 427 or make it into a 496. You can build it to run on pump gas and run 10's on the motor. If you want to run 9's just throw a small shot of nitrous on it.

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel body shaft rockers, Cloyes Timing set, custom ground 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050" with .704" lift, Dart single plane, Holley Dominator EFI on E85, Injector Dynamics ID2000 Injectors, Stef's #1705R oil pan, F2 Procharger, Lemons 2" primary 4" collector, ATI 9" blower converter
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 11:27 AM
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Re: 572 or 427

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67cam427 View Post
well i got about 10k more i can spend on the engine but would like to save 3k of that to put in a new 9" for the rear $1600 ......what type of rearend is it that you can switch out gears in like an hour so i could have my street gears and also my strip gears as that is another route i might take.
It's the Ford 9" that you mentioned in your post above. If you are planning to use 2 different gear sets...1 for the street,1 for the strip..the Ford 9" is the rearend to use. I have one in my Camaro.

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 572 or 427

nothing against nitrous just dont want to run it. wouldnt be so bad for strip but i would just end up using it on the street and saying hello to a tree. now a blower i would be happy with.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 01:06 PM
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Smile Re: 572 or 427

Go with your 454 with 396 crank if you want a "427". Otherwise run your 454 as is. Remember a 572 is a tall deck engine, which can create header problems and valve cover to Brake booster clearance issues.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 02:44 PM
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Re: 572 or 427

Paul...I see you have twice posted interest in a blower.
I would decide now what induction system you want to use before building the long block 433.
I say this because your static cr and valve timing events will differ between n/a and forced induction.I prefer a purpose built blown engine if you want to take full advantage of the blower.Hope this helps.

George
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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Paul
 
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Re: 572 or 427

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatblock View Post
Paul...I see you have twice posted interest in a blower.
I would decide now what induction system you want to use before building the long block 433.
I say this because your static cr and valve timing events will differ between n/a and forced induction.I prefer a purpose built blown engine if you want to take full advantage of the blower.Hope this helps.
oh definately. if i do not find a blower before i start the build then i will stay N/A. dont want to waste money on intake, carb, cam, pistons then get a blower and replace all that.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 03:33 PM
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Re: 572 or 427

With a 572 you will need a huge roller cam and aftermarket heads just to make that power too.The difference will be the compression and the rpm.A 431 making 800 hp will need 13.5:1 and 8500rpm,a 572 will need about 11:1 and 7200rpm.Big difference in street manners there.I run a 439 with 11:1,GM aluminum bowtie rectangular port heads,a solid flat tappet cam that I shift at 7200rpm,and I make about 600 at the flywheel,it runs 10.40's in a 3500# car with a 5000 stall convertor,transbrake,and 4.56 gears shifting at 7200rpm.It is street driveable on pump gas,but not well mannered.With 13:1 and a .720 lift solid roller that goes to 7500 I could make closer to 700 hp since I already have fairly large heads,an 1150 carb and 2" headers,but a 572 could make that kind of power at 6600 and with 11:1.It is all really about how well mannered you want the engine to be.II could have built my engine with brand new GM iron heads and an 850 carb,it would have went just as fast,and it would have cost me about $5000 pan to carb.You couldnt get a new 572 of any kind for $5000 since all of them hve roller cams and aftermarket heads.As for low deck VS high deck,they are building street engines up to about 800 hp at 598 inches out of standard deck enginee,you just need to make sure that is what you are getting.
Good luck.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 05:15 PM
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Re: 572 or 427

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67cam427 View Post
oh definately. if i do not find a blower before i start the build then i will stay N/A. dont want to waste money on intake, carb, cam, pistons then get a blower and replace all that.
I have found some deals on used roots blowers.My suggestion to you is to have a return policy in place if the blower does not check out.
Example..I bought an 8-71 fully equipped with fuel lines/linkage/spare pulleys/filters/carb adapter/restraint straps/8 mm belt and bug catcher for $2k US.All polished and a nice piece less carbs.
Upon closer inspection..I found a 6" long hairline crack in one rotor.I called the seller back and he agreed to refund my cash..but he really did not have to,seeing how it was AS IS.
To rebuild that blower to spec would have been more coin than if I just called the likes of Don Hampton or simply purchase an off the shelf new Weiand.
Maybe your luck is better than mine,but factor in an inspection from a reputable blower builder if you purchase used.The s/a street supercharging book has a good tech inspection chapter regarding what to check at swap meets etc.
A shameless plug for Roots blowers atop a bbc,but you really can have your cake and eat it also.They make ground pounding torque right off idle with mild cam timing and properly sized will fill cyls thru decent heads beyond 100% volumetric efficiency.How many guys can boast that n/a..aside from the Pro Stock gurus.
Imo..build around the lung.The 433 will act like a solid roller 540 and can cough up 15 mpg to boot with some tuning.The wow factor is a bonus also when you get a detroit roll going on at your local burger joint.

George
68 Camaro
8-71 blown 461 Rat on E-85

Last edited by fatblock; Jan 9th, 10 at 05:36 PM.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Paul
 
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Re: 572 or 427

  • heres what comes with the 572 so does this sound about right for an 800 hp engine?
  • BOWTIE STD DECK BLOCK THAT HAS BEEN BORED AND HONE WITH TORQUE PLATES TO 4.560 BORE
  • BLOCK HAS THE DECKS SQUARED TO THE MAINS
  • SCAT 4.375 4340 FORGED STROKER CRANKSHAFT
  • OLIVER PARABOLIC BILLET CONNECTING RODS
  • MAHLE FORGED PISTONS 10:1 COMPRESSION
  • J&E PLASMA MOLY FILE FIT RINGS
  • COMP CAMS SOLID ROLLER CAMSHAFT 268 274 [email protected] .660 .675 LIFT 112 LS
  • SCE TITAN SELF SEALING HEAD GASKETS
  • TRUE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN
  • ATI BALANCER
  • EDELBROCK 370CC RUNNER ALUMINUM HEADS
  • 2.30 AND 1.90 STAINLESS STEEL VALVES
  • FIVE ANGLE VALVE JOB
  • SPRINGS TO MATCH CAMSHAFT
  • NEW CRANE GOLD SERIES ROCKER ARMS
  • MANLEY 3/8 PUSHRODS
  • FLEPRO PERFORMANCE HEADS GASKETS
  • ARP HEAD BOLTS
  • DART SINGLE PLANE INTAKE
ROTATING ASSEMBLY HAS BEEN INTERNALLY BALANCED
I CAN SUBSTITUTE A HYDRAULIC ROLLER CAM IF DESIRED
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 10, 07:29 PM
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Re: 572 or 427

I think this 572 would like some 1.8 rockers on the intake side.Is it just me..but I thought all large cube big blocks start at .700" lift minimal with a decent cyl head.Who loves lift more than a canted valve bbc?

George
68 Camaro
8-71 blown 461 Rat on E-85
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