Original '67 350 rebuild... - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Original '67 350 rebuild...

Problem:

I took my engine to a very repuatable rebuilder to get the seals/gaskets changed and for hardened valve seats. He has advised me that the cam has wear and that due to tolerances we should probably rebuild the engine. I am planning to take his advise and rebuild but I'm not sure how many upgrades I should introduce. It will be backed by the original Muncie M20 and original 12 bolt.

Plan:

I plan on using the original intake, double hump heads (1.94/1.5), quadrajet carb, and exhaust manifolds. I am open am open to upgrades that will keep the original outside appearance and increase the power. He has recommended a comp 280 cam, bigger valves and a few other ideas. I am planning to step up to a Petronix II distibutor and coil system.
(I am no engine expert so less abriviations and simple engish is best. )

Questions:
  1. What should I upgade and why?
  2. Will these upgrades hurt the value of my original car?

Vince
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 02:19 PM
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

well my hat is off to you for being able to trust someone to work on your motor
(SOMETHING I JUST COULD NOT DO) but as far as doing a good rebuild It's pretty simple
#1 get the block hot tanked and bored / put new cam bearing's
#2 get the head's fixed ie valve job guide's (TO GET THEM IN GOOD SHAPE)
#3 check the crank for any wear damage
#4 check the rod's for wear damage
#5 get a good set of piston's (GOOD QUALITY) sealed power/trw/name brand forged slug's !
#6 get all new main bearing's rod bearing's gasket's pick a cam get new lifter's push rod's and rocker's (THEY ARE TO CHEAP NOT TO) new oil pump and timing set too !
#7 PUT THAT BABY BACK TOGETHER AND ENJOY IT FOR THE NEXT 10 YEAR'S !

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 02:19 PM
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

Depending on rear end gears, the 280 may be too much. Comp 270 or Isky 270 Mega cam would probably work better for you depending on your c.r. and small valve heads. You can get by with some Z28 type springs. Should wake the motor up really nice!!
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS3SDL2MG View Post
well my hat is off to you for being able to trust someone to work on your motor
I wish I could... but this is outside of what I am comforatable with at this time.

What cam would you recommend?
I am running the original non-posi 3.31 gears but will probably put these in a box in exchange for a posi 3.55 setup as soon as everything is back together.

Vince
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 02:57 PM
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Wink Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

I agree that the cam may be a bit much for you original combo.
I'd recomend you stick with something in a 268~272 range.
This will build about as much HP as the stock parts will support and give you excellent drivability.

I'd also recommend a "pass" on that 'valve size increase' they were talking about
Your stock parts will probably not show any increased benifit from a larger intake/exhaust size due to the limitations of the intake and head ports.
Most shops also fail to properly size and place the necessary intake deshrouding so those 'bigger' valves really don't flow that much more than the stock 1.94"ers.

If you're trying to get a bit more flow and still want to retain mostly stock parts, try using the smaller cam in conjunction with higher ratio rockers to get more valve event.
You'll end up with better low-end drivabilty as well as see a decent increase in flow and HP output.

I would encorage you to really think-out your exhaust set-up
A good set of headers and good exhaust piping will show fantastic results for most near stock/mild performance vehicles.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

Will there be any significant advanatege to the bigger valves (2.02/1.6) ? Is this something I should even do to the original heads?

As far as exhaust goes... I'd love to upgrade but I want the stock appearace AND most importantly I already paid for the stock exhaust!

What about the Comp Cams Dual Energy 275 (12-209-2)
http://performanceparts.com/part.php?partID=247245

Vince
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 05:10 PM
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Thumbs down Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincevs View Post
Will there be any significant advanatege to the bigger valves (2.02/1.6) ? Is this something I should even do to the original heads?

As far as exhaust goes... I'd love to upgrade but I want the stock appearace AND most importantly I already paid for the stock exhaust!

...
With stock Q-jet intake and exhaust sizing, no ... the bigger valve will not really buy you anything.
You would just kill some bottom end with them and then not have enough flow to get any advantage on the top end.

1.94" are just fine for most street vehicles with stock manifolds.

I'll look over that cam tonight to see what it should work like.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

Thanks... If either cam is not my best option please suggest another. My builder is thinking 280H might be a bit much and gave me a few other options. Also he was aiming for 10.5 to 1 compression.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 08:03 PM
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Smile Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

I would recommend the 268H cam or the old L79 cam. The double hump heads have too small of intake ports to handle the port velocity that the newer cams create. I also agree that the larger valves are overkill. My engine builder wouldn't even install them in my double humps, as he had to many heads crack from the intake valve to the exhaust valve. "not enough meat" is what he said. You should have 10:1 (9.7:1) compression with the double humps and flat top pistons. He might be thinking of decking the block and using a shim head gasket, to boost your compression more.

I personally don't like decking the block anymore than you need to, to "true" it up. That's the same as boring the block to the max. If you have any future problems, the block is junk.

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

On my spec sheet I have a big NO! for decking the block since it is the original #ed motor!
I'm not exactly sure where he gets his numbers but I will ask for the spec sheet and quote to post. I'm starting to get worried about these larger intake and exhaust valves... so I'm going back to reading old threads.
If someone is willing to spec out a full build option for me with compression and estimated numbers I would really appreciate it.

Vince
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 08:38 PM
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

My blocks deck height is .015" numbers are still visible, perfect quench with a .025" composite gasket.
With 10.5:1 you should be good with the 280H-10
I have a 286H-10 which is a size up and love it.
If you bump up your comp to 10.8:1 you can run the 286 that has a little more lift and duration, and your gears aren't so bad either.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 10, 11:11 PM
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Smile Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

You don't want that big of cam (280H) with double humps ! The 280H actually makes less HP and TQ then the 270H. Both are too big IMHO. Your double humps should be 62cc's with the 1.94 valves. If 2.02 valves are used and they are plunged cut to unshroud the valves the heads should be 64 cc's. If you go with a cam larger than a 268 your port volume won't take it. It really should have headers if you go with a cam any where near that big. (even the 268). Make sure you match these parts ! If you want a bigger cam, go with different heads and headers.

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 10, 01:48 AM
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJS69 View Post
You don't want that big of cam (280H) with double humps ! The 280H actually makes less HP and TQ then the 270H. Both are too big IMHO. Your double humps should be 62cc's with the 1.94 valves. If 2.02 valves are used and they are plunged cut to unshroud the valves the heads should be 64 cc's. If you go with a cam larger than a 268 your port volume won't take it. It really should have headers if you go with a cam any where near that big. (even the 268). Make sure you match these parts ! If you want a bigger cam, go with different heads and headers.
I see your point about port velocity, especially in lower ci motors.
What is the comparison of the 280H with aftermarket aluminum heads with a runner say 190cc's?

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 10, 08:00 AM
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Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

my 2 cents here


rebuild your 350 back completely stock and put it on a stand in your garage. save your iron manifolds and everything else that's original.

Put in a different engine that's built however you want to drive and have fun with. 383, carbed LSX, 406, anything you like the idea of. then, when time comes to sell, put your original 350 with the original iron manifolds back in.

its a win win situation beacuse you don't risk something happening to your 350 and also get the performance upgrades you're now skeptical about.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 10, 10:53 AM
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Talking Re: Original '67 350 rebuild...

Hey Guys,

Been awhile since I posted on Team Camaro as I usually hang out on Team Chevelle. Vince asked me to weight in on his combo for his 350. So lets get to it.

- Heads: keeping the stock 1.94 / 1.5 valves is a good plan for a mild engine combo with smaller cubes. Have a competition / multi-angle valve job performed for more HP and TQ. If you wanna go to the bigger 2.02 / 1.6 valves you will see little to no improvement unless a pocket port is performed and the chambers are unshrouded around the intake valves. This is easy and straight forward work but difficult to someone of no experiance. Beware of the machine shop trap. It is easy to end up spending lots of $$$'s on a stock set of heads.

- Cam selection: I have three off the shelf profiles from Comp Cams to recommend. First, the Comp Magnum 270. This cam in a fairly stock 350 will deliver great manners, good torque and a nice lumpy idle. This cam is nice and gentle on the valve train and resembles the old 350HP 350 cam profile. Second, The Comp XE268. This grind is a modern version of the magnum 270. It will perform nicely. Third, The Comp Thumper. This is the entry level baby thumper of the bunch. It will run nicely and deliver a definate rumpity rump sound at the pipes. This is the cam to pick if you wanna sound cool on cruise night.

- Other thoughts. It has been mentioned to pull your numbers matching mill and park it on a stand. If you go this route I would build a 383 / 400 combo and have a torque party with the new infussion of power.

What ever you do remember this is all fun. Good Luck

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