Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 10, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

Hello everyone,

Hopefully this post is in the right place.
I did some searching, and came upon Trick Flow's top engine kits for the chevy small block. They range from 350HP to 500HP all for around $2,000
Here are the links I found:
http://treperformance.com/i-90322-tr...chevrolet.html
http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail....5&autoview=sku

Does this look like a good all-in-one set up for the money? Will it truly produce the numbers it claims?
I have a 327/210 and want to get some more HP and Torque out of the engine, and have been given the advice to replace the heads, cam, intake, and carb. But this set up looks to do all of what I need (minus the carb and intake). What advice can you guys give me on a set up of say the 350 through the 420 HP kits? Is this a good avenue to take?
Thanks for the expertise and advice on this! I really appreciate all the help.

Last edited by brewcity; Feb 8th, 10 at 10:35 AM.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 10, 10:51 AM
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Thumbs down Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

First off ... you need to check that HP claim, to see what the parameters for that engine where they got it from were - or - was it generated on a software 'Dyno' ...
I'd be willing to bet they're talking about a larger displacement engine than your 327
Most likely a 'test' 383 with those Torque numbers ...

You can assemble the parts your engine needs to get 300~350 streetable HP for the same or less $$$ very easily.
You don't need the big valves and high lift of the head/cam set-up they are selling to generate the numbers.
You do need a good, well thought out exhaust system as well as a good intake/carb set-up to provide the support increased cam profiles and better heads would flow.

You also need to be sure your lower-end is capable of handling the increased load of the greater output - or you'll be building another engine fairly soon ...


BTW - there are two (2) cam profiles and spec. in that add ... might want to find out for sure which one is actually shipped with their 'kit'

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 10, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage 68 View Post
First off ... you need to check that HP claim, to see what the parameters for that engine where they got it from were - or - was it generated on a software 'Dyno' ...
I'd be willing to bet they're talking about a larger displacement engine than your 327
Most likely a 'test' 383 with those Torque numbers ...

You can assemble the parts your engine needs to get 300~350 streetable HP for the same or less $$$ very easily.
You don't need the big valves and high lift of the head/cam set-up they are selling to generate the numbers.
You do need a good, well thought out exhaust system as well as a good intake/carb set-up to provide the support increased cam profiles and better heads would flow.

You also need to be sure your lower-end is capable of handling the increased load of the greater output - or you'll be building another engine fairly soon ...


BTW - there are two (2) cam profiles and spec. in that add ... might want to find out for sure which one is actually shipped with their 'kit'
OK...thanks for the advice.
How do I know if the lower-end is capable of handling the increased load of the greater output? Is there something I need to add or do to make sure the lower end IS capable enough for the increase in HP and torque?
Thanks a lot!
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 10, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage 68 View Post
I'd be willing to bet they're talking about a larger displacement engine than your 327
Most likely a 'test' 383 with those Torque numbers ...

BTW - there are two (2) cam profiles and spec. in that add ... might want to find out for sure which one is actually shipped with their 'kit'
Good advice...so I checked the Summit racing page, and narrowed it down to the 1968 year, and the 5.4L/327, and here is what I got:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TF...e%7c5.4L%2f327

Any advice on this, or should I just go with the other option of building the engine up and ditch this kit?
Thanks again!
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 10, 11:26 AM
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Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

super chevy used that kit on a 355

463 lb-ft at 5000 rpm.
506 hp at 6100 rpm.

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...o_testing.html
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 10, 11:52 AM
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Wink Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcity View Post
Good advice...so I checked the Summit racing page, and narrowed it down to the 1968 year, and the 5.4L/327, and here is what I got:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TF...e%7c5.4L%2f327

Any advice on this, or should I just go with the other option of building the engine up and ditch this kit?
Thanks again!
Dang - I had a long reply done and the computer yak'd the damm thing

Bottom line - sure, the 'kit' will fit your 327 ... you're just not gonna see anything near that HP (445) out of it.
And, even if you did it wouldn't be for very long
You need a dust-pan more than fuel from then on
They used a larger displacement (383+ maybe) bottom end to see those numbers

You'd be better off to assemble a nice engine from parts that match your needs.
You need to make sure your bottom end (crank, rods, bearings and pistons) are capable of living with increased loads form high outputs.

You can buy nice matched sets of aftermarket heads for under $1k.
You can find a nice streetable cam in the 268~274 range to give you great bottom end and HP output.
Matched to good intake/carb. combo and a free-flowing 2.5" exhaust system and you get a vehicle that responds well for driving as well as builds good torque/HP numbers and responds very well for performance driving.
You need to inspect the bottom end (crank, rods, bearings and pistons) to be sure they will also handle this increased output. I'm not saying you need to build it 'bullet-proof' - just use good parts and it will last at HP levels under 400hp for a long time.
You can do all of this for @$2.5~3k if you are carefull about parts selection and do a little hunting for parts.

"Torque" is what you're looking for for that tire burning stop-light launch feeling that your butt will love!

Remember that GM got 300+ HP out of these engines with 1.94" valves, relatively small intakes and carb.s and very restrictive exhaust systems.
We can do even better with med/low cost speed stuff available to us today!

I'd go with a set of good aftermarket heads (1.94" if stock style exhaust & 2.02" if you're going to upgrade exhaust to headers and good pipe/muffler combo), cam in the 268~274 range depending on heads, a good intake/carb combo to match your driving needs and a good quality rebuild of the bottom -end if it's needed.

I think you'll like the combo and can always build a dedicated higher output engine with more displacement later

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 10, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage 68 View Post
Dang - I had a long reply done and the computer yak'd the damm thing

Bottom line - sure, the 'kit' will fit your 327 ... you're just not gonna see anything near that HP (445) out of it.
And, even if you did it wouldn't be for very long
You need a dust-pan more than fuel from then on
They used a larger displacement (383+ maybe) bottom end to see those numbers

You'd be better off to assemble a nice engine from parts that match your needs.
You need to make sure your bottom end (crank, rods, bearings and pistons) are capable of living with increased loads form high outputs.

You can buy nice matched sets of aftermarket heads for under $1k.
You can find a nice streetable cam in the 268~274 range to give you great bottom end and HP output.
Matched to good intake/carb. combo and a free-flowing 2.5" exhaust system and you get a vehicle that responds well for driving as well as builds good torque/HP numbers and responds very well for performance driving.
You need to inspect the bottom end (crank, rods, bearings and pistons) to be sure they will also handle this increased output. I'm not saying you need to build it 'bullet-proof' - just use good parts and it will last at HP levels under 400hp for a long time.
You can do all of this for @$2.5~3k if you are carefull about parts selection and do a little hunting for parts.

"Torque" is what you're looking for for that tire burning stop-light launch feeling that your butt will love!

Remember that GM got 300+ HP out of these engines with 1.94" valves, relatively small intakes and carb.s and very restrictive exhaust systems.
We can do even better with med/low cost speed stuff available to us today!

I'd go with a set of good aftermarket heads (1.94" if stock style exhaust & 2.02" if you're going to upgrade exhaust to headers and good pipe/muffler combo), cam in the 268~274 range depending on heads, a good intake/carb combo to match your driving needs and a good quality rebuild of the bottom -end if it's needed.

I think you'll like the combo and can always build a dedicated higher output engine with more displacement later
Thank you soooooooo much for the reply!
I will definitly be going this route then, and will check the bottom end to see if it needs anything!
Thanks for the specifics, and the advice! Guys like me really need your expertise and knowledge. You guys are the best!
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 10, 06:20 PM
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Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

i have the 420hp kit. The Trickflow 420hp kit was dyno'd on a 350 with a 750 holley and vic jr manifold. I have a performer rpm manifold and currently a edelbrock 600cfm carb. I'm saving up for a bigger carb, but I like the kit even with the smaller carb i'm running now. The kit came with felpro gaskets, a billet double roller timing chain, hardened pushrods, nice trickflow roller rockets, 62cc heads with guide plates and the cam and hydraulic lifters. I paid around 1500 for my kit. I added a few extra upgrades to my motor when i built it, like a tci rattler damper, moroso oil pan etc, but the kit is nice and designed to work together. I have the kit on a .060 350 with stock dished pistons, stock rods, and cast crank with 4 bolt mains. I've had no issues with durability so far and its been a couple years. sure is alot more fun to drive and it can now back up some of the noise it makes.

1969 Camaro 350, Trickflow heads, ST-10 4spd, Hotchkis suspension, Baer SS brake kit, moser 12bolt
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 10, 02:38 PM
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Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

Was thinking about the same kit for my 327 build but just found out the block is cracked:-( A buddy has a nice 350 standard bore block I can have. Maybe I'll use the kit on that build? Or search for another 327 block in good condition...
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 10, 03:59 PM
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Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

I've 68 425Hp Hp 327 that revs 8000rpm+ but it's torque is about useless unless you use 3.73 or 4.10's. I used a 4 Bolt 010 4 bolt Block only to mount an OEM Vette Windage Tray and Pan. Rare Medium Journal OEM 68 327 Forged Crank, SCAT 2-ICR5700P 4340 3/8" ARP Cap Screw Rods, TRW-L2166NF30 Pistons and Grumpy Spec'd 2.02/1.6 - 9/32nd Manley Pro Flow Ultra Lite Valved 291 Turbo Flow Heads with RKM Shaft Rockers that took me 6 months to Build (Cheaper to buy After Market if you're not fussy about Stock Appearance) 11.25:1 Static Compression running a Sigerson 196S Solid Flat tappet Cam and 4779 Holley 750DP/Edelbrock RPM. I can run Pump Gas but have to retard the Timing. Put Racing Octane in her and advance the Timing you have a Endless RPM.

This is OLD School Stuff - My 327 looks like a Stock L74 or L79 with the LT1 Valve Covers ;o)

These are my 291's great for a 302 or 327 but 292's are Best for a 350 or 383.






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Get that BOOK - There's nothing like it in reference for the LT1 SBC ;o)

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Last edited by Z15CAM; Aug 3rd, 10 at 05:00 PM.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 10, 08:06 AM
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Re: Are the Trick Flow Super 23 Top-End Engine Kits worth it?

The heads listed in the Trickflow kit are too big for a street driven 327. You'd be much happier with some Edelbrock performer RPM's or some other head in the 165-170cc range. You can build a very streetable 327 with 350+ horses if you match your parts and don't go too wild. Remember, bigger isn't always better. Listen to John's advice.

Personally I'd go with 165-170cc heads with small enough chambers to give you at least 9.0:1 compression, solid lifter cam, Edel. RPM intake, Q-jet and 1 5/8 headers. It'll run like a 'scalded dog'.

Mark

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