Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

I have a 67 Camaro. with a 350. I took a set of 186 hump heads to him for a valve job and got all new valves, seats, guides, Z-28 springs, ( the works ) for $375 and for $100 he did a pocket port job. So for $475. I'm happy. then I decided to rebuild the whole engine. Its a 010 casting ( high Nickel block ) I took the striped down block to the machine shop to have it bored and honed. And the owner keeps recommending parts that I think are under powered. Like the pistons. the old pistons were flat top, and he thinks I should used dished. and the cam he thinks I should use an Engine Pro .420 in - .443 ex lift with a durattion @.50 204 in and 214 ex.. I dont know what size cam was in there before as I just bought the car and the previous owner said he had no info. What do you guys think? and another thing for the block work he wants like $375. Fine. Then he wants to grind, polish and balance the crank, flywheel and pressure plate. Do you think hes going to far for an engine thats not going to make that much HP. The car is going to be 99% street but I want it to still make good power. I'm sure I'm leveing out a lot of info and post as needed. Thanks

Last edited by bautino95; Feb 13th, 10 at 02:43 PM.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 11:22 AM
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Re: machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

He is probably trying to match the cam to the valve springs.

Tell him what you intend to do with the car, how it will be driven most of the time, and what kind of power you want and the budget you have.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 12:28 PM
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

Thats a really small cam thas for sure, I hope he is not boring of an unsquared decks and he plate hones the block for proper ring seal.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 12:59 PM
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

The crank work depends on the condition of the crank.A dump truck engine will need the crank ground and polished ift he journls are scored.The cam he is offering you is nearly stock,it wont have any lope,and wont make any power over about 4800rpm.The dished pistons match the mild cam since your small chamber heads will make the compression too high for that cam.If you dont mind a small amount of lope,a better cam would be something like the crane powermax 272 with flat top pistons.The Z/28 sprngs are good to about .550 lift,so you will have no probems with this cam.I ran the Crane HMV 278 in my old flat piston 350 with camel hump heads and an old Weiand 8004 intake and it was great street combo with moderate lope.I now have the same camel hump heads and 278 crane cam in my 400 smallblock with a torker intake and it is a strong and docile combination.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

when I talked to him he did say he was going to deck the block, bore and hone it. I want it to make as much hp for as cheap as possable. Before tear down it had a 600 cfm edelbrock performer carb, edelbrock RPM intake, and long tube headers. He said he can get me the whole rebuild kit ( pistons, rings, bearings, cam, double timing gear set, oil pump. ect.... for$375. I told him Summit has kits for less then that. But then he told me that I would have to file the rings, and press the wrist pins for the pistons if I bought the summit kit. but if I got the kit though him he would do all of that. and I would just have to assemble the block. Then cam and pistons are my biggest concerns to make HP. having flat top before it makes no sense to me going to dished pistons and a small cam. I think the Z-28 spring a rated for .49 lift max. he says hell order what ever I want but gives me a hard time about it saying that its not going to make power were I want it. Oh and that another thing He thinks I should get rid of the RPM intake and get the performer intake to it make most of it power off idel and up instead of the higher RPM range. I had a post on here earlier about just the cam and everybody seems to think around a .480 lift max should be good. What do U think.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 01:20 PM
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Rich
 
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

Unless you are building a 283 to put in an Impala I dont see the logic in going wth such mild stuff.A 350 in a Camaro will be fine with the RPM intake.BTW,I ran that old 8004 with both a 600 and 750 vacum cab and ther was no real diffrence.I had a stock covertor and 2.73 gears and could fry the tires off the rims,and cruise at 110mph on the highway until it ran out of gas.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

So I should tell him I want Flat top pistons and a bigger cam then. or Just get the machine shop work done and be done with this guy and order all the parts myself.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 01:54 PM
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

Tell him what you really want and see what he will do for you.It may be the differance between if he will stand behind his work or not.ere is no reason why he houldnt stand behind the engine with the cam I suggsted.While it might not be his idea of ideal for performance, it wont pose a mechanical issue such as piston to valve clearance or spring or valve guide clearance problems.It souds like he is giving you a good deal already it is just a matter of the tune you want
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 02:04 PM
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

Just remember the dfferance between what he is offering an what I am offering migt be 30 or 40 hp,and thats comparing the differace in compression,cam and intake,so it isn't like we are talking night and day differance.He is being conservitive becuse he doesnt want you comng back complaining that you didn know the engine was going to lope,or that you didn't know it might ping on 87 octane on a hot summer day in traffic,or that it wouldnt pull giant wheelies when you put in gear at idle and mash the gas.hiscombo would be more likely to pass smog,but my old 350 did pass NJ tail pipe test in my 73 Camaro.

Last edited by RichSchmidt; Feb 13th, 10 at 02:30 PM.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

I want it to run on pump gas thats for sure. And the car dosnt need to be smogged.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 02:23 PM
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

The one thing that I noticed on this thread was that the CID wasn't established, only the block casting. Another thing that wasn't mentioned was the expected or more correctly the stated compression of given motor with the listed parts. Without those, how are we to give any type of suggestion of a cam and carb? That not withstanding, I'd keep the performer RPM rather than step down to just a performer manifold.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

Cant belive I left out it's a 350 ci. with 600 cmf edelbrock carb. And the CR is the other discussion. as there are no pistons picked right now. Before the tear down it had flat top. And now the shop is recommending dished. I also though high CR was better ( but not to high on pump gas) Whats the highest CR I can get a still run pump gas?. I called the shop a told him to hold off on ordering the part till I find the best combo. He'll go ahead and do all the machine work, but I need to figure out what cam and piston set-up I need. Thanks
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 02:40 PM
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

He mentioned an 010 block,and dished pistons.I don't know of any rebuilder pistons or even modate price performance dished pistons for a 327 and for a 302 it would be absurd.He had 186 heads which are 68cc max and thats if they havent been milled.With 2 relief flat top pistons at zero deck a composition gaset an even 64cc heads i would be a true 10:1,with rebuilder 4 reflief pistons it would be more like 9.8:1,with 4 relief pistons and 68cc heads it would be about 9.65:1.With stock 350 piston dish and 68 cc heads it woud be about 8.8:1.The flat piston 64cc combo would be toward the max compression for the cam the rebuilder is suggesting on 91 octane,and the dished piston isnt a bad idea for 87 octane useage.With the slightly larger cam the 4 relief piston 68c combo is the way to go even on 87 octane.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

So Rich you tink I should got with a 4 relief flat top piston. and a slightly larger cam. Can recommend a cam size. Thanks
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 02:57 PM
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Re: Machine shop/ builder recommends smaller cam?

I recommended the Crane Powermax {or old HMV} 272 cam.Its closer to 215/225 at .050 and 455/475 lift.It will have just a hint of lope at idle but will idle in gear at 750rpm ad make plenty of vacum for power brakes and idle in gear with the AC on if thats your lan.
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