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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 10, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
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corey
 
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350

hey guys just having a little problem here I have that msd street fire ingnition with the adjustable advance when I got it it was adjusted al the way in so it had no advance, Just wondering how you would go about adjusting that
thanks in advance
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 10, 03:17 AM
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Steiner
 
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Re: 350

Are you talking about the HEI distributor? It still has advance with the screw turned all the way in. The vacuum advance chart is here:
http://www.street-fire.com/8362.pdf

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 10, 04:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 350

yes thats the HEI and iam at about 15 degrees timimg I just dont get what advance setting is good for just street driving
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 10, 07:14 AM
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Steiner
 
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Re: 350

It's going to be based on how much vacuum your engine pulls for the vacuum advance. You want the can to fully deploy, not dither back and forth. Start with it like you have right now (turned all the way in) and just drive it around and turn it out one turn at a time until it seems like it wants to flutter then turn it back in.

As for actual mechanical advance, you're probably at a good place right now with 15 degrees initial. That distributor has 20-21 degrees of mechanical.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 10, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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corey
 
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Re: 350

ok I will try that so basicly its just trial and error right. thanks for the help
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 10, 03:07 PM
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AJ
 
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Re: 350

This is good info, I'm needing to do the same thing to my distributor.
This is a stupid question, but what are the degrees for (in gray) on the left side of the chart, it's kind of confusing to read.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 10, 06:36 PM
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Steiner
 
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Re: 350

The gray numbers are the total amount of vacuum advance. The can is adjustable only for when the advance comes in, not the total amount unless of course you have it turned out all the way and can't pull enough vacuum to fully deploy the can.

With the screw all the way in, you need the least amount of vacuum for full advance. As you turn the screw out, you basically need more vacuum for the same amount of advance.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 10, 11:42 PM
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AJ
 
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Re: 350

Not trying to thread hijack here but would turning the screw all the way in mean that no vacuum advance is going to be drawn, or that it requires very low vacuum?

If your running 20 initial, and the motor pulls 6" to 8" of vacuum what would be the right amount of turns out? I don't know why I'm having such a hard time reading the chart, but if I could figure that out, it would probably make alot more since in reading the chart in the future.

Thanks for the help.

The only Mustang I'd ever own is a Fender.

'68 333" Camaro
'14 5.0 Mustang
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 10, 01:47 AM
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Steiner
 
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Re: 350

With the screw all the way in, it needs less vacuum for the amount of advance supplied.

Each engine is going to want or need a different amount of advance. If your engine only pulls 8" of vacuum at idle then you would not want to hook this can up to full manifold vacuum because it would dither in and out and make it hard to get a steady idle. However, on ported vacuum it would probably work well because I imagine you could pull around 14" a light load. For instance, I ran ported vacuum to mine as it pulled around 11" at idle but 16-17" at light load going down the road. Mine ran best with around two turns out which if you look at that chart means it needed 14.6" of vacuum for full 22 degrees of advance. As you open the throttle and put more load on the engine, vacuum will decrease and the vacuum advance will decrease with it.

I can't say what every setup will like but mine ran well with ported vacuum advance and 16 degrees of initial timing. I think the standard amount of total advance (mechanical plus vacuum) that most street small blocks will tolerate at light load is somewhere around 50-54 degrees.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 10, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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corey
 
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Re: 350

ok so if Iam running 15 degrees at idle then I will start with it all the way and just turn it out one turn at a time. I shouldnt be more then 4 or 5 turns out with the cam I have right , its a comp cam 270 what do you think?
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 10, 02:55 AM
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Steiner
 
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Re: 350

Quote:
Originally Posted by steps350 View Post
ok so if Iam running 15 degrees at idle then I will start with it all the way and just turn it out one turn at a time. I shouldnt be more then 4 or 5 turns out with the cam I have right , its a comp cam 270 what do you think?

If you've got a real hot setup you may want to fashion a way to limit the advance this can will provide to something less than 22 degrees.

It's a trial and error thing and there's no guarantee that this vacuum can will be the right one for your engine. One way to do it would be to get it running good without any vacuum advance, then hook up the vacuum advance and start adjusting it for your part throttle usage.

Now, MSD says to start with the screw all the way in and then turn it out as you drive it and find out how it runs. It seems to me like you would want to start with it all the way out (10 turns) as that will give you the least amount of advance for the amount of vacuum you're producing. Then turn it back in to get more and more advance until it starts to surge or ping then dial it back.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 10, 03:01 AM
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Steiner
 
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Re: 350

You know, I'm going to contact MSD about their instructions. They say "clockwise reduces the advance, counter clockwise increases." However, their chart shows the opposite.


At any rate, you need to be aware that this can is not really ideal for a real hot setup. The amount of vacuum advance it can supply is more in line with what an old stock HEI can would do. Their more performance oriented models only provide 10 degrees of advance.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 10, 03:22 AM Thread Starter
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corey
 
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Re: 350

oh, so do you think my set up is a little to much for this or not really? also if you dont mind another question iam pluging the vaccume line into the vaccume port on the pasenger side above the idle adjustment screw on the holley is that the correct place?
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 10, 03:36 AM
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Steiner
 
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Re: 350

Quote:
Originally Posted by steps350 View Post
oh, so do you think my set up is a little to much for this or not really? also if you dont mind another question iam pluging the vaccume line into the vaccume port on the pasenger side above the idle adjustment screw on the holley is that the correct place?
I need to clarify that I'm not an expert on vacuum advance tuning. I just have experience with that distributor and my setup.

That is the ported vacuum port. With this can, yes it will probably do better attached to the ported vacuum port. You probably do not make enough vacuum to peg the can out at idle which would result in it fluctuating.

There are tons of threads on running full manifold vacuum versus ported manifold vacuum for spark advance. In my personal application which at the time was a flat top piston 355 with 76cc heads and fairly mild cam, mine ran fine with this distributor connected to ported vacuum. As my engine was pretty mild, it would tolerate a lot of advance at light load.

I have an email in to MSD right now to verify their chart for this can. If it is correct, I'd recommend starting out with it turned the full 10 turns out. First turn it in all the way so you know when you get to 10 turns as it can be damaged by going too far out. 10 turns out will give you the least amount of advance for a given amount of vacuum (going by their chart).

You can most likely fashion a stop to limit the can to a lower amount of total vacuum advance. There are a lot of people here a lot more knowledgeable than me who can better recommend a level of vacuum advance based on your engine setup. I only have my limited experience with what I have run.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled

Last edited by Steiner; Mar 24th, 10 at 03:49 AM.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 10, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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corey
 
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Re: 350

ok well i will try the full ten out, and then go from there and see what happens
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