After 42 years... - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 10, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
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AJ
 
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After 42 years...

I think the original starter in the camaro is finally dead.
originally a 327/210 starter with manual trans, I guess the hot long tube headers, 10.8:1 compression, and high initial advance finally killed it.
Started fine today, parked it, got back in to put it in the garage and noticed a different tone, gauge read 11-12 volts, temp was 190* sitting, it would barely turn over, started, then I turned the car off, tried to start again, nothing. Let it sit for a second, start again. With the lights on and fan on, it wouldn't start, which leads me to believe it could be a wiring problem, but it's doubtful, I really don't want to have to re wire the entire car.

Unless it's a bad ignition switch or wiring problem, it's dead or it's on it's last leg. I hated the way it sounded from the get go, and look forward to a new starter. I guess they don't make 'em like they used to, been through 3 starters in my '97 truck.

Anyways, just thought it was cool a part expected to fail the first few years of a vehicles life (alternators, batteries, starters) lasted that long, that many startups, and been on the same motor with a bunch of different combinations over the years lasted as long as it did.

The only Mustang I'd ever own is a Fender.

'68 333" Camaro
'14 5.0 Mustang
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 10, 04:23 AM
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Re: After 42 years...

We've come to a throwaway society. When you do get a new starter, I suggest you swap out all the parts into your frame, swap the brushes, and nose piece.

This way, you keep the OE stampings on the frame and nose piece for fit onto the block. You could even swap the nose piece bushing, or get another one and press in the new one using a screw & nut. Use the new one to push the old one out.

Rereading your post, the starter will sound different with less current. If you had lights on and fan, there should be plenty of current to start. Voltmeter should have read just above 12 volts with ign only on and drop to say 10 volts when cranking, lights would dim. VR may be set alittle low or battery may be showing its life.

You might remove the ground cable at battery, go to the horn relay buss bar and remove the red wires and wire brush all the terminals and buss bar, or place the each red wire over the top of each other, and reassemble. Do the same wire brushing to the junction block next to the battery. Do the battery cables and their attachment points.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 10, 04:28 AM
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Re: After 42 years...

""""We've come to a throwaway society.""""
AINT THAT THE TRUTH...

BILL D.
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if you have a bbc in your 1st gen 67-69 camaro click on the link below and enjoy the veiw and post yours up!!
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if you have an all original 1st gen camaro 67-69 click on the link below and enjoy the veiw and post your up!!
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 10, 09:36 AM
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Re: After 42 years...

I'm still waiting for my 43 year old plug wires to fail! American craftsmanship

1967 327 4spd convertible 119K
1968 RS Z/28 04D Norwood have owned twice
1968 RS Z/28 04D Van Nuys asleep for 36 years
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 10, 11:23 AM
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Re: After 42 years...

Don't call it dead. If it were me, I would take it apart and test it, look for shorts and I would bet a donut, you will find the problem in the solenoid unless winding and armature is fried. I would try to rebuild it . Love for the orginal stuff is good. If you don't have the expertise for this, then you probaly have no choice.

The stuff you get today is put together from parts dumped into a barrel, armatures here, stators in another , field coils in another. More likely when you go get a rebuilt starter other than a Delco rebuilt, you may wind up with internals from a 4 or 6 cly.

I still have my cast iron nose from my orginal starter. Just rebush it and move on . Just my 2.

Don
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 10, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: After 42 years...

I can get it re-built locally.
FWIW I have a 100amp powermaster 1 wire alternator but the external voltage regulator on the core support is still being used... I was certain you were supposed to bypass that and remove it, but we modified a few connectors from the old alternator to make work with the new one. Is this incorrect?

Battery is a red top optima that is maybe 2 yrs old. The battery in our other vehicles are way cheaper, get started more, and power alot more accessories and get long life, I doubt it's the battery.

If I have to get a replacement starter for the time being, will it be correct out of the box, or need shimming? I know the originals are not gear reduction starters like the newer vehicles, but would it be better to use one?

The only Mustang I'd ever own is a Fender.

'68 333" Camaro
'14 5.0 Mustang
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 3rd, 10, 05:39 AM
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Re: After 42 years...

I think I'd suspect the Optima and/or connections first. The results of owning my Optimas has proven to me that mine should live on a battery charger or stick em in the alley and let the scavengers have em.

Did you jump it off?

I am with Don, problem will be in your solenoid if it isn't the Optima/connections. Solenoid just needs a new 'big washer' and copper bolts need flopped 180 is what I have seen. Take that damthing apart man, there's nothing to em. And if you screw it up, where are you? Exactly where you woulda been. Then you have a legitimate excuse to buy one of those DB electrical ebay $59 PMGR caddy starters or an authentic ministarter whatever you want.

I like owning a lot of spare junk, it just saves your butt when you least expect. Whatever you do, don't let go of that starter. And if you have it rebuilt locally vs doing it yourself, see if the guy will let you help him. They would in days past.

Knowing how junk works will save your butt too. Knowing starters got me out of the jungles down by Yucatan a helluvalot quicker than waiting for a new starter for a Cat engine woulda taken(takes weeks and months to import parts). Knowing how to do water pumps let me turn the lights back on on a ship 150 miles offshore Brazil one time. Rip that crap apart and finger it out man.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 3rd, 10, 06:02 AM
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Re: After 42 years...

rebuild it...............

1969 Chevrolet Camaro 396 SS X-66

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 10, 04:58 PM
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Re: After 42 years...

The original starter on my 1969 C/10 gave out on me after I swapped in a new crate 350. I took it off, carried it to the parts store, replaced the solenoid and put it on the bench tester and it worked fine. I would rather have the original old parts than the rebuilt parts store stuff any day!

1967 Camaro SS: 406 sbc, 522hp/514 ft lbs, Doug's 1 3/4" headers, M20, posi, 3.73's, vintage air gen IV, IROC steering box, Comp Eng. weld-in sfc's & traction bars, chrome US Mags

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 10, 05:52 PM
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Re: After 42 years...

I'm still using the original 1974 starter my engine came with..


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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 10, 05:38 PM
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Re: After 42 years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetblue69 View Post
I'm still using the original 1974 starter my engine came with..
...My '67 still has it's orig alternator & regulator...it surprised me on that one!

Wait, did I jinx it now?

- John
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 10, 06:16 PM
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Re: After 42 years...

After having a hard time finding a starter that would fit properly, when it started to expire I had it rebuilt, not exchanged, by the guys that do our diesel starters. Just like new or better. Some have the ability to rebuild with more windings for higher torque.

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 10, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: After 42 years...

The old alternator still worked when I replaced it with the 100volt power master for bling and extra juice to run the electric fan, higher volt ignition, lights and eventually electric fuel pump better.
I will pull the old starter and rebuild it in the next few weeks.

The only Mustang I'd ever own is a Fender.

'68 333" Camaro
'14 5.0 Mustang
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