Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark - Team Camaro Tech
Engine General Engine Discussion.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 382
Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Hi Guys,

I've been enjoying my '68 for the past few years now ... However, I drive it rarely ...
This past weekend the wife and I went for a nice, long ride and had no issues. The next day I go out to start the car and it turns over but will not start. I'm assuming that maybe something came loose ...

At first I thought that I flooded the car, but after checking plug for spark, the is no spark.

The car has a like new MSD 6BTM Ingnition Control Module, MSD 6 Coil, and MSD Billet Distributor ... I looked over the connections to these 3 items and didn't see anything loose, etc ...

What all should I check ... I was planning to check power to these items this weekend ... but was hoping to get ideas and recommendations on what to check with the electrical system ...

Thanks

'95 383 CAMARO Z28 - C.A.M. BUILT/TUNED
405 RWHP/428 RWTQ (SAE DynoJet)
'99 CORVETTE
'68 CAMARO - 383+D1SC, Orion Silver
Tim_in_NC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 07:38 PM
Senior Tech
Steiner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lyman, SC
Posts: 8,348
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

I'm sure you already know this but the small red wire to the MSD for control power has to come straight from the IGN spade on the fuse block inside the car. If you did not install it yourself then verify that it is not connected to the original ignition power wire coming off the bulkhead connector unless the cloth covered resistor wire was replaced with a regular wire. I know it's run for a while but sometimes little stuff like that will work right on the edge and then one day say "That's it. I'm done." Just something else to check before doing the MSD diagnostics in their instructions.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'69 Camaro Beater-SFT 327-M20-Moser 4.10-sold
'02 Z/28 vert-stock-sold and totaled
Steiner is offline  
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 07:40 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Michael Gekko
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wrightsville Beach, NC
Posts: 5,583
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Do you have a spare coil, or do you have a buddy that does?

One of the biggest causes of coil failure comes from people over-tightening the nuts on the coil-it breaks the pole loose inside the coil.

You can probably use an el cheapo coil from the store if nobody has one you can use.

1968 Camaro NHRA/IHRA SS/C 'Super Stocker' 396/Jerico
1968 Street/Strip Camaro 350 w/PG
1968 Caprice NHRA/IHRA Stock ELiminator O/SA 327-250 HP



Land of the Free Because of the Brave

It Takes a Long Time to Grow Old Friends
Eleanor's Nemesis is offline  
 
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 382
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Steiner: I'll double check that ...

EN: I don't have another coil ... however I might have a buddy with one ...

I found this video where MSD shows how to check the ignition and coil ... I'll give this a try tomorrow ...


'95 383 CAMARO Z28 - C.A.M. BUILT/TUNED
405 RWHP/428 RWTQ (SAE DynoJet)
'99 CORVETTE
'68 CAMARO - 383+D1SC, Orion Silver
Tim_in_NC is offline  
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 04:58 AM
Super Moderator
Bess-68's rule
 
Everett#2390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va Beach VA
Posts: 31,708
Garage
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

You might look over MSD literature #6462 for instructions to troubleshoot.
I would suspect the module has thrown up its flag as Steiner suggests, "That's it, I'm done."
However, a simple check as Michael suggests, swap out a coil, any coil, just to see if it works.

Give a man a rescued dog for the health of both their souls. May 2017 ROTM Winner - Thank you!
'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CUBS - 2016 World Series Champions - Thank you, Joe Madden … enjoy your next chapter.
Everett#2390 is offline  
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 382
Smile Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
You might look over MSD literature #6462 for instructions to troubleshoot.
I would suspect the module has thrown up its flag as Steiner suggests, "That's it, I'm done."
However, a simple check as Michael suggests, swap out a coil, any coil, just to see if it works.
That would be horrible if the Module is toast ... I've had it installed for a few years but only drive this car a few times a year it seems ... Figured it would last for a long, long time ...

I'll see if I can round up another coil and do some power checking as well as the spark test from the video ...

'95 383 CAMARO Z28 - C.A.M. BUILT/TUNED
405 RWHP/428 RWTQ (SAE DynoJet)
'99 CORVETTE
'68 CAMARO - 383+D1SC, Orion Silver

Last edited by Tim_in_NC; Sep 21st, 12 at 06:13 AM.
Tim_in_NC is offline  
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 10:24 AM
Super Moderator
Bess-68's rule
 
Everett#2390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va Beach VA
Posts: 31,708
Garage
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

On another note, what configuration of voltage regulator do you have?
If you are running an external reg'd alternator, aka, 10DN, this might be the problem as an ext VR could introduce voltage spikes into the electrical system and these spikes may be the culprit to the module.

Remember, internal reg'd, read electronic regulated alts, came out just before electronic ignitions. So spiking events would have never shown up. Module problems then were related to shorted coils, due to overheat, and overheated modules.

However, doesn't mean you can't fix it. Install a 10-amp 17 volt Zener diode, cathode stud mount to rad support, on the red supply wire, say at the horn relay buss bar, and spikes would be smoothed out.

Give a man a rescued dog for the health of both their souls. May 2017 ROTM Winner - Thank you!
'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CUBS - 2016 World Series Champions - Thank you, Joe Madden … enjoy your next chapter.
Everett#2390 is offline  
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 382
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
On another note, what configuration of voltage regulator do you have?
If you are running an external reg'd alternator, aka, 10DN, this might be the problem as an ext VR could introduce voltage spikes into the electrical system and these spikes may be the culprit to the module.

Remember, internal reg'd, read electronic regulated alts, came out just before electronic ignitions. So spiking events would have never shown up. Module problems then were related to shorted coils, due to overheat, and overheated modules.

However, doesn't mean you can't fix it. Install a 10-amp 17 volt Zener diode, cathode stud mount to rad support, on the red supply wire, say at the horn relay buss bar, and spikes would be smoothed out.
Car has a 140 amp Powermaster Alternator with Internal Regulator


'95 383 CAMARO Z28 - C.A.M. BUILT/TUNED
405 RWHP/428 RWTQ (SAE DynoJet)
'99 CORVETTE
'68 CAMARO - 383+D1SC, Orion Silver
Tim_in_NC is offline  
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 04:18 PM
Super Moderator
Bess-68's rule
 
Everett#2390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va Beach VA
Posts: 31,708
Garage
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Well, this is good. Nice set-up. Just a thought.

Give a man a rescued dog for the health of both their souls. May 2017 ROTM Winner - Thank you!
'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CUBS - 2016 World Series Champions - Thank you, Joe Madden … enjoy your next chapter.
Everett#2390 is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 382
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
Well, this is good. Nice set-up. Just a thought.
I very much appreciate any ideas you have ... keep throwing them my way as I might overlook ...

Will attempt surgery tomorrow ...

'95 383 CAMARO Z28 - C.A.M. BUILT/TUNED
405 RWHP/428 RWTQ (SAE DynoJet)
'99 CORVETTE
'68 CAMARO - 383+D1SC, Orion Silver
Tim_in_NC is offline  
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 04:52 PM
Senior Tech
Brian
 
PA Camaro Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 642
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

I used to have a Mallory Comp SS magnetic breakerless distributor. Have since replaced with an MSD 8360, still magnetic triggered. Anyway, one test that Mallory publishes on their website is for testing the module in the distributor. I'll recap the procedure in a minute but the reason for passing it along is that the video you linked looks like it would test the BOX triggering functionality but not necessarily the module itself.

Test procedure is as follows:
1) Connect a test light between coil (-) and ground
2) Turn IGN on but DO NOT crank
3) With the cap off the distributor, take a flat bladed screw driver and touch the magnetic pickup inside the distributor (not the reluctor paddle)
4) Magnetic pick up is functional and calling for spark if you observe the test light blinking each time you touch the pick up.

Magnetic Breakerless Test Procedure

1969 Camaro 383
2.02/1.63 & 234/244 Vortec
TH350 / 12 bolt 3.73
PA Camaro Guy is offline  
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 22nd, 12, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 382
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

I performed the spark test on the Ignition and Coil Setup and Spark is flying with key in On position ...

So rechecked the spark at the plugs and no dice ...

Is there anything else, other than the distributor, that could be causing this?

'95 383 CAMARO Z28 - C.A.M. BUILT/TUNED
405 RWHP/428 RWTQ (SAE DynoJet)
'99 CORVETTE
'68 CAMARO - 383+D1SC, Orion Silver
Tim_in_NC is offline  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 22nd, 12, 09:11 AM
Super Moderator
Bess-68's rule
 
Everett#2390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va Beach VA
Posts: 31,708
Garage
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

If you have spark at the coil high tension lead, then the only other place the spark travels is to the dist cap, rotor, then to each individual wire, providing the rotor turns with the engine cranking.

Give a man a rescued dog for the health of both their souls. May 2017 ROTM Winner - Thank you!
'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CUBS - 2016 World Series Champions - Thank you, Joe Madden … enjoy your next chapter.
Everett#2390 is offline  
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 22nd, 12, 09:18 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: California
Posts: 75
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Bad cap or rotor may be the culprit then, or module in the distributer.
ML's68 is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old Sep 22nd, 12, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 382
Re: Went for a Long Ride, Next Day ... No Spark

Hey guys ... I did a couple more checks on the Power coming into the Ignition Module via the Ignition Key ...

With the key in the Off Position: No Power ... With the Key in the On Position: 11.8 Volts ... With the Key in the Starting Position, the power dropped to 10.3 Volts

Is this drop sufficient to get things going? OR is something going on here?

'95 383 CAMARO Z28 - C.A.M. BUILT/TUNED
405 RWHP/428 RWTQ (SAE DynoJet)
'99 CORVETTE
'68 CAMARO - 383+D1SC, Orion Silver
Tim_in_NC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome