Carb choice help needed - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Carb choice help needed

First the back ground-- What I thought was a base 327 turned out to have flat top pistons with reliefs and "186" heads (Didnt know this info before tear down). It was pretty peppy but I though what the heck Im going to do the Scoggins Dickey upgraded Vortec Head kit.

I finished the install today and took it for a ride. Now Im thinking new carb. I reused the 650 Edelbrock that was on it before the swap and now im getting a little bog. I really dont want to mess with the edelbrock. I would rather have a holley.

With the increased flow am I now under carbed? Im thinking a Holley 4150 650 cfm with vac secondaries or should I move up to a 750. Would the 750 be too much? Specs on cam are unknown but it doesnt lope at all.

Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 08:35 PM
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Smile Re: Carb choice help needed

I have a 600 cfm Edelbrock on my 327 and I am very happy with it. A 750 Holley would be too big. I would tune the Edelbrock. What do you have to loose ? Edelbrock has some great tuning videos on their website.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 08:44 PM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

Good choice on the Holley. Even if they don't work any better than the Edelbrock they look way cooler.

A 4150 650 CFM would work great. You can also make a 0-3310 750 CFM run well on just about anything. Vac secondaries are pretty forgiving. I'd use the 650 though.


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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 08:47 PM
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Smile Re: Carb choice help needed

Here is a link to the videos. Keep in mind that you will have to tune ANY new carb. that you would buy too.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ech_vids.shtml

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 08:48 PM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

I ran a 3310 on a 327 with not as good heads and a .460 lift cam and it did terrific. Also had a manual trans and that helps.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 12, 08:50 PM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPOS View Post
Good choice on the Holley. Even if they don't work any better than the Edelbrock they look way cooler.

A 4150 650 CFM would work great. You can also make a 0-3310 750 CFM run well on just about anything. Vac secondaries are pretty forgiving. I'd use the 650 though.

This is good advice, imo.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 05:27 AM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

If this is for the street then you can't beat the Holley 670 Street Avenger vac secondaries...I run this Carb on my 454...

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPOS View Post
Good choice on the Holley. Even if they don't work any better than the Edelbrock they look way cooler.
If it was a matter of what looked cooler, maybe he should just go buy a 2012 Camaro and be done with it !

I hate to see someone spend $300 plus on a new carburetor and another $100 on tuning a new carburetor when all that was needed was a simple accelerator pump adjustment or a step up spring change.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 09:43 AM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

Thoughts....

Take a little time to try to tune the Edelbrock carb. It should work fine for your combo.

If you HAVE to have a Holley, and that is up to you, then take a little time to try to find one. You can typically find an old core and put a kit in it for a reasonable price.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 10:13 AM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

A better choice then Holley is Quick Fuel carbs,

Basically it's an improved Holley built by the guys that worked for Holley and started building them when the patents expired.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 12, 11:11 AM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
A better choice then Holley is Quick Fuel carbs,

Basically it's an improved Holley built by the guys that worked for Holley and started building them when the patents expired.

Agreed - I just replaced my 670 Avenger with a Quckfuel's Hot Rod series 680cfm. It cost $380 and and is comprable with the features (4-corner idele, all alum. billet blocks, screw-in air bleeds) on Holley carbs that cost almost 2x as much. IMO there's no reason to buy an intermediate level Holley anymore with these nice Quickfuel units out there. They accept the holley tuning parts.

The Edel should be able to run fine on there but if you got an itch for a new carb check out the Quick Fuel options.

My experience has been that on an engine simlar to yours, you'll obtain better hp/tq & crisp throttle response in the ranges you'll want it in with a 650 range vs. 750 size. And as a bonus you'll get better MPGs.

ALso - you can adjust vac. sec. by simply turning a screw vs. having to change springs. These guys must have been dreaming these improvements up for years salivating at the chance to implement improvements - they really did it right - good for them.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 22nd, 12, 08:22 AM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

Well...for one thing they don't make (Holley) an aftermarket 650 vacuum carb. The only thing available is a spread bore. They are either 600, 670 or 750.

Just want to lightly throw out there that these carbs come with a lot of bells and whistles that most don't understand nor can benefit from. Granted, billet block address porosity issues and that's a good thing. For one thing, you do not need the added tuning complications of a 4 corner circuit. A lot of guys have trouble getting the front dialed in and now you want to add the rear and try to get that balanced? Yikes. Unfortunately, in order to get the other good upgraded, the carb co's are adding that in because guys think they need it on a vacuum carb. Air bleeds must be there but don't need to be changeable on a street carb. Just another thing you can take a screwdriver to and F up. Changeable idle feeds are good but many don't know where they are and what size they should be......now throw in 4 corner idle and you are trying to get both ends of the carb to meter fuel correctly at idle. Thanks God they sheet canned the cast zinc main bodies though. Huge porosity issues and horrible castings. You can't get a cast zinc main anymore from Proform or QFT. Major improvement. The old zinc bodies seemed like they where cast in Play-doh.

Bottom line is they are good carbs. The Holley Ultras are only $100 more and not double. Holley still has better quality control period. but that doesn't make the QFT a bad carb. I have built and ran many. Would never buy a new one though because there are too many good used ones out there on eBay for 50% or more off the cost of new. ALso look for Proform. You Quick fuel guys take your carbs apart. On the inside of the PV cavity on the main body you will find "QFT" cast on one end and "Proform" on the other. Same blocks, bowls, mains and bases peroid. This is why the top of the bowls and sides of the mains have STICKERS.....so they can put what ever name they want on it based on what door it is going out! They just anodize them different colors base on the name being sold under.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 23rd, 12, 09:54 AM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubs68camaro View Post
Well...for one thing they don't make (Holley) an aftermarket 650 vacuum carb. The only thing available is a spread bore. They are either 600, 670 or 750.

Just want to lightly throw out there that these carbs come with a lot of bells and whistles that most don't understand nor can benefit from. Granted, billet block address porosity issues and that's a good thing. For one thing, you do not need the added tuning complications of a 4 corner circuit. A lot of guys have trouble getting the front dialed in and now you want to add the rear and try to get that balanced? Yikes. Unfortunately, in order to get the other good upgraded, the carb co's are adding that in because guys think they need it on a vacuum carb. Air bleeds must be there but don't need to be changeable on a street carb. Just another thing you can take a screwdriver to and F up. Changeable idle feeds are good but many don't know where they are and what size they should be......now throw in 4 corner idle and you are trying to get both ends of the carb to meter fuel correctly at idle. Thanks God they sheet canned the cast zinc main bodies though. Huge porosity issues and horrible castings. You can't get a cast zinc main anymore from Proform or QFT. Major improvement. The old zinc bodies seemed like they where cast in Play-doh.

Bottom line is they are good carbs. The Holley Ultras are only $100 more and not double. Holley still has better quality control period. but that doesn't make the QFT a bad carb. I have built and ran many. Would never buy a new one though because there are too many good used ones out there on eBay for 50% or more off the cost of new. ALso look for Proform. You Quick fuel guys take your carbs apart. On the inside of the PV cavity on the main body you will find "QFT" cast on one end and "Proform" on the other. Same blocks, bowls, mains and bases peroid. This is why the top of the bowls and sides of the mains have STICKERS.....so they can put what ever name they want on it based on what door it is going out! They just anodize them different colors base on the name being sold under.
4 Corner Idle is super easy. In fact on the Holley website site they have a Video How To. A lot of guys are trying tune idle without using a vacuum gauge so it it or miss. The other key in tuning 4 corner is to make very small corrections and what you do to 1 corner you have to do for all corners.

For a person that KNOWS Carbs go ahead take a chance on used. For the few bucks you're gonna save I prefer NEW

QF does have a HR-680-VS Which is 680 CFM with Vacuum Secondaries.

And spread to square adapters work great.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 23rd, 12, 01:10 PM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
4 Corner Idle is super easy. In fact on the Holley website site they have a Video How To. A lot of guys are trying tune idle without using a vacuum gauge so it it or miss. The other key in tuning 4 corner is to make very small corrections and what you do to 1 corner you have to do for all corners.

For a person that KNOWS Carbs go ahead take a chance on used. For the few bucks you're gonna save I prefer NEW

QF does have a HR-680-VS Which is 680 CFM with Vacuum Secondaries.

And spread to square adapters work great.
Ever try using a vacuum gauge with a big cam? Good luck.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Sep 23rd, 12, 01:40 PM
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Re: Carb choice help needed

Awe you beat me to it. Vacuum gauges are fine for a mild motor with a lot of LSA. After a couple 100 carbs you leave the vacuum gauge in the drawer and you tune with your eyes and your ears. Then there are those guys trying to tune the idle with a wideband O2........


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