Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old May 20th, 14, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R
OK, not looking to step on any ones toes, this is what I found works for my Car.
I have been Blogging, Searching the Forums for a while, Yahoo, Googling and asking just about anyone that has dealt with any info for a Set of Big Block Headers that Fit. Had lots of help from others on what worked for them, all good info. I know this is “Long Keyed” but for the amount of Research and time, it’s worth the Read !
Posted to Team Camaro 11/24/2012
Hi All
Getting some parts together for my car, 1969 SSRS and I'm installing a 454, Was a 350/300. Just a street car, maybe a run at the Drag strip here and there.
Read allot about different BBC Fitment issues on the blogs, sometimes you only see the problems.
Was raised and brought up on Hooker Super Comps, ran'em on my cars back in the 80's, the usual ding here and there to get them to fit, can’t believe in this day of CNC and Computer controlled manufacturing, we are still pounding Headers for clearance.
I do not have the Lemon $$ and what I have seen for the 1 ” primary tube set, the Headman Elite # 67198 seem to be the easier fit, any ideas for other Headers. I did purchase the BB Engine Frame Mounts.
Going Old School, 15” rubber, nice stance, working on it with my 15 year old Son.
Thanks
Timmy from Connecticut
(french69ssrs)

I am almost done with a 427 BB (454 Block) and bought a Performance Transmission’s 700R Trans thru Ground Up at their Vendor Show a few months back.
I purchased the Correct 1969 BB Frame Brackets from Rick’s Camaro’s, came in a Classic Headquarters box, 1 ” to Centerline of Bolt hole on the Left, 1 3/8” to Centerline of Bolt hole on the Right. Energy Suspension Long BB Motor Mounts 2 3/8” wide. Engine is offset 1" to the Right now.

I have a soft spot for the Hooker Headers and tried to go with them, I do not like the Collector Reducer Bolt at the 6 O’clock position.
I have Power Steering and was told the Hooker 2457's Fit like a Glove, I ordered a set and the # 5 Tube hit right on the P/S Box and the Bolt Hole for the L/H Mount was out like 7/8".

Put a set of Doug’s on a Pontiac 400 cu in for a Firebird a few weeks ago at the Engine Shop I help out at and liked them, looked into purchasing them, called Summit Tech Rep and talked to him, he said the Doug’s were a great Header and should fit, Here we go again.
From what I have seen, the Hooker 2205’s would have worked but that Bottom Collector Bolt bothered me and the Doug’s was not at the Bottom.

I ordered a set of Doug's D320-R, like the Hooker 2205's where the # 5 goes over # 7 but the Doug's are a bit nicer/ heaver Constructed and the Collector Bolt Flange has the single bolt of 3 at the Top, 12 O’clock position.

Another thing for those who ordered their Hookers Ceramic Coated, if you have used the ARP Head bolts, I had marked the 2457’s in 2 places each side where I would have had to Notch the Header attach flange – Doug’s have Plenty of room.
I also have a Hamburger “Kick Out” pan, old style where it does not have the Cut out to Drop the Oil Filter, the Doug’s has an Opening between the Primary’s where I can reach in from underneath the Frame and remove the Oil Filter, Hooker 2457’s did not have this.
I do have to Re-route the New Stainless Steel 3/8” fuel line up front, Cut about ” off the Right Upper AFT “A” Frame Pivot Support Bolt and the Pitman Arm from the Power Steering Box has about 1/16” clearance to the # 1 Primary Tube, and I do not have any Suspension on the Car Right now, so I do not expect any interference with the Idler Arm as I have looked and there seems to be plenty of room on the Right Side.
I also made a Beautiful 700R4 Crossmember from the TH400 BB one and relocated the Mount to the Front. Cost me $75.00 and some MIG Time.
I will post some Pictures, Bought the Doug’s Bare Metal and will be sending to Jet Hot for their Ceramic Coating service. I have measured and looked at every angle on this install, Doug’s worked for me.
Timmy from Trumbull, CT
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Last edited by french69ssrs; May 20th, 14 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Forgot the 1 Inch offset to the Right
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old May 20th, 14, 09:07 PM
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Dougs do fit great. You made right decision bout getting them raw and sending them off to get jet coat. I bought a set large tube for my stroker took bout 4 sets to get a set the coating was decent not great but ok. Then after setting in shop for a while on engine never driven they started rusting. Jegs said it was because it wasn't in a "controlled environment" a friend of mine got some went thru same problem so he sent them off got them jet coated look great been on for a year now still look new. So mine are getting pulled off an shipped to get jet coated. But they fit great

1968 454 muncie 4spd
1967 RS L30 M20
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old May 25th, 14, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Thanks James
I had the Hooker's, and 2 pair of Hedman's, both were damaged during Shipping.
Wanted to share a side Pic of the Doug's installed, should be nice ground clearance.
Timmy
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old May 26th, 14, 08:42 AM
DT
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

I have had no problems with my Hooker 2457's other than the ARP bolt issue you mentioned. Original BB car. Is that a stock motor mount on the pass side?

1969 X66 396 LeMans Blue, M20, 373 (Sold)
1969 Convertible LS3 TKO 600, 373
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old May 26th, 14, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Quote:
Originally Posted by DT View Post
I have had no problems with my Hooker 2457's other than the ARP bolt issue you mentioned. Original BB car. Is that a stock motor mount on the pass side?
Hi Donny
That is great that your Hooker 2457 Competition Headers Fit, the ones I got from Summit did not, I tried to be very accurate with what I wrote.

My Car was a 350 cu in and TH350, trans was gone when I got it, I got the Correct Frame Mounts from Ricks, and the Motor Mounts are Energy Suspension, measure out to what info I have seen.

Do you have Power Steering ? and your 2457's are Competition Headers with 2" Primaries ?

Also, I have looked at many Pictures of the 2457's, the Profile/ inset of # 5 on my set was even with # 3.
If you go to Matt's posting for "Evening with the hookers" in the Bench Racing group, Posting # 44 shows a set of Hooker 2457's Competition Headers where # 5 Drops straight down Behind the Steering Box which is Manual, Mine has Power Steering.

Last Picture is from DavePL on "Camaro Tech", He wrote SuperComps do not fit, The were 2457's - Competition and that is what My Install looked like, # 5 hit Right on the Power Steering Box and my Bolt Hole for the Motor Mount to the Frame Bracket was about 7/8" off.

And all I'm trying to show is how the Doug's D320's fit for my Install, I'm glad I borrowed a Dummy 396 Block and heads for my Mock up, and that your 2457's did fit.
I'm sure there might be a Doug's D320 set that does not fit, I feel I have all the Correct Parts for the Power Steering Install.
Timmy
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old May 26th, 14, 03:26 PM
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Yes I have PS. The tubes are damn close to the PS box but do not touch. I think they are 2 inch as well. I though all of the 2457's are 2 inch ? One other thing I just remembered, I also had to shorten one each of the upper control arm bolts, on both sides, the bolts closest to the radiator/front of car. I do like the room you have with the Dougs. Anyway this was just my experience with them. It seems a slight variation of each 2457 that is produced maybe evident. Great post !!

1969 X66 396 LeMans Blue, M20, 373 (Sold)
1969 Convertible LS3 TKO 600, 373
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old May 26th, 14, 07:24 PM
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

I tried Hooker super comps on my 1968 that I put a 454 in. same issued a ding here and a ding there. but I changed then to herman block hugger shorties for ground clearance. after the 2" drop in the front spring I had trouble putting mine on a trailer. shorty block huggers fit and look GREAT
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old May 29th, 14, 03:36 PM
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Here is a pic: They have 1,000 miles on them now.
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1969 X66 396 LeMans Blue, M20, 373 (Sold)
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 15, 04:02 AM
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

i just bought a set of dougs headers hope they fit thanks for info
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 15, 04:06 AM
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

just bought a set of dougs headers hope they fit like the ones on the fhotos keep everyone updated thanks
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 15, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Hi Johny1
Do you have a Big Block with Power Steering ?
That is what my install is.

A few things I liked about the Doug's D320-R was they were Natural Steel so I wanted to make sure they fit before I sent them out to Jet Hot, did not have to pay for Sanblasting.

Jet Hot did a beautiful Job as did Doug's Building the Headers.

They fit around my ARP Head Bolts, the hookers needed "Notching.
Ther is Plenty of room around my Power Steering Box too.

I had to Move/ Reroute the Fuel Line as the R/H # 6 Header Tube was right against the Clamp.

I also made a Heat Shield as the Power Steering did not have enough clearance to the Header Tube.

Timmy
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1969 SS/RS Coupe 427BB 700R4 12 Bolt 4:11 A/C, High School Resto Mod

November 1968 Build Date
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 15, 06:45 PM
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

my car 69 camaro convertible im doing a full restoration going pro touring i have a 502 gen5.i had hooker headers brand new withh manual steering with a little bit of massaging got them to fit. decided to go power steering bought the complete detroit speed setup no way the hooker headers are going to fit praying these doug headers do the trick
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 15, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Hi Johny1

Wow, lot's of fun stuff.

I would like to add a Disclaimer -
My Power Steering Box is from an Iroc, Third Gen 1990 unit.

I did put my Old/ Original P/S box up and had the same easy clearance around the Box. My only Clearance issue was the Stock, Power Steering Hoses and I made a Heat Shield for that. Is your P/S Box the same Housing measurements ?

And my Engine is a "72" 454 Block with "67 - 68" Corvette Rectangular Port, Cast Iron Heads.

I do not know anything about the 502, Is it a Tall Deck, are the Exhaust Ports and Head Bolt Height the same as the Cast Iron Heads, I would think the Engine mount Bosses are in the same place.

I did use a borrowed 396 Block and Heads to check the Fitment in my Chassis with the 2 P/S Boxes and then did a Dry Fit on my 427 at the Engine Shop prior to sending out to Jet Hot.

Took a few Pics tonight, in # 3 & 5, my Fuel line Runs up over the Top of the Frame Rail and I slid the 3/8" Insulation Sleeve over the top for some Heat Protection, I am running the Mechanical Fuel Pump.

Timmy
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1969 SS/RS Coupe 427BB 700R4 12 Bolt 4:11 A/C, High School Resto Mod

November 1968 Build Date
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 15, 07:56 PM
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Smile Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Hi guys, In reading through this thread, I never saw anyone mention that when using a big block, the correct big block transmission crossmember must be used. If you don't the engine will be twisted on its mounts and pinch the headers at the steering box and interfere with steering linkage. See pictures.



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69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 15, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Big Block Headers, My 3 Cents Doug's D320-R

Hi Tom
Yes, It is all a part of the "Swap Package" you need to either Fabricate or Purchase, I like to do as much of the Work and Fabrication myself.
Nice Pictures too !

I went from a 350SB/ TH350 to a 427BB/700R4

I did my TH400 "Crossmember Mod" for my 700R4 on Team Camaro (Cost me $60.00 from Ground-Up) as well as how I Mocked up the Engine Offset with a 396.
Both Engine and Transmission are 1/2" to the right which results in the Engine and Trans Measuring 1" less from the same Reference point on the Right side vs. the left, and my Crossmember Mod was to Cut the Mount Bracket off the Back and Weld it to the Front.

The Biggest thing about the Offset is to get the Header away from the Steering box as I have read and seen.

I had several people tell me the Hooker 2457's will fit my car "like a Glove", so I bought the 2457's and OJ Simpsons Gloves were Looser !!!

I would have had to BEAT those with an Anvil to get them to Fit, Later found out the Guy had Manual Steering or Massaged them slightly and you could not get a piece of paper down between them.

I refused to Pay that kind of money and Beat them into Fitting, obviously those issues are less with a SB.

Again, The Hooker 2205's I'm sure would fit with the # 5 Tube going up over # 7 but, at the Engine Shop, I installed 2 sets of the Doug's on Pontiac 400 engines and Liked the Fit and Quality so I gave them a try - Glad I did.

What else that I can think of -

1) With the 700R4, I had to "Beat" Yeah, (hated that) a Pocket for the Servo on the R/H side of the Trans Tunnel.
2) Engine Frame Mounts
3) Motor Mounts
4) Radiator (4 Core)
5) Upper & Lower Radiator Hoses
6) Pulleys
7) P/S Pump Brackets
8) I did Modify my SB P/S Pump to fit the BB P/S Brackets, Return Tube is different
9) P/S Hoses - Might be the Same ?
10) Fabricated a P/S Hose Heat Shield
11) Fan Shroud
12) Alternator Brackets
13) Front Coil Springs
14) Dipstick
15) Throttle Linkage to Carb
16) Headers
17) Heater Core
18) Modify the Heater Box or buy a BB Heater Box
19) Shorten the R/H Front Upper "A" Frame Bolt 1/2", will hit Header Tube
20) Move Stock Fuel Line to top of Frame
21) Add 3/8" Fuel Line Insulation
22) Shorten Driveshaft

That's it off the top of my Head.
Timmy
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1969 SS/RS Coupe 427BB 700R4 12 Bolt 4:11 A/C, High School Resto Mod

November 1968 Build Date
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