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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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Tony
 
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Help me solve this?

OK, it seems I have a number of issues, I'm just wondering how bad it is..

Background:
So I took a running 1969 350 (2 bolt main) out of my 68 Camaro. It sat on an engine stand for about a year until I took off the top end to inspect and refresh. Everything looked good and I cleaned off the old head gaskets and replaced them. I replaced stock intake and carb with an Edelbrock performer (used) and Holley 600 (used) with electric choke and new mechanical fuel pump. I put the motor in my 1975 Camaro which I bought with a missing motor.
I had a used HEI distributer that came with the 75 Camaro. I put sealant on all of the lower head bolts but not the main head bolts. Torqued all head bolts properly. I did not put sealant on the intake manifold bolts. I did put sealant on the intake gaskets.

OK, so much for background here is what happened:

I refill all fluids (water, oil, trans fluid). Right away I notice water dripping down the block near the starter and that one of the rear intake bolts was left loose after removing hoist chain. I tighten the bolt and the leak stops.
I set the timing to TDC, pour gas into the carb and attempt to crank with no results. I reset timing and try same process again with no fire. I reset timing again with no results. Each time I pour gas into carb. I finally check for spark on one of the new plug wires (also new plugs) and have no spark. I test for 12 volts to the carb via the Batt lead and I get 12 volts. I assume the dist coil is bad (used distributor after all) so I replace the coil and still get no spark. I then decide to just replace the entire distributor with a new one to eliminate any other used dizzy issues.
This is when I pull out the distributor and notice the chocolate milkshake oil mess at the distrib base. I immediately drain the oil and get a watery caramel colored oil that smells like gas.

So now what do I do? Do I assume the gas in the oil came from pouring gas in the carb repeatedly without firing the engine? Or another problem?
Do I assume the water in the oil came from that loose bolt on the intake or another problem?
Do I need to take off the heads at this point or just try again with fresh oil?
Is this a result of buying used parts? (carb and intake)
I noticed a small fuel leak dripping from the choke area (diaphram area)of the carb onto the intake. Water neck also has a small external leak onto the intake.
Any advice would be great! Thanks.
Tony

Tony
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 07:16 AM
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Re: Help me solve this?

Chocolate milkshake smells like gas,then yes sounds like ya gas you kept pouring got in there.
Since it was running before, I would put fresh oil in and my bet would be yer ok.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 07:35 AM
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Re: Help me solve this?

Ditto. Although I'd pop the valve covers to dab teflon paste on each of the head bolts one at a time, and do the same for the intake manifold bolts. If that bolt was loose enough to let water come out, it was loose enough to let water seep over into the valley and crankcase. Head bolts in water jacket will eventually weep coolant, and intake bolts will eventually weep oil.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 07:40 AM
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GM
 
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Re: Help me solve this?

It's probably a good thing it didn't "fire". Pouring gas in the carb??
I know people do it, but it don't make it right! Let the fuel pump do it's job.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me solve this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by copter View Post
It's probably a good thing it didn't "fire". Pouring gas in the carb??
I know people do it, but it don't make it right! Let the fuel pump do it's job.

Yes, I said the same thing about being lucky that it did not fire..or FIRE!
I agree and good advice about the fuel pump..
Thanks!

Tony
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me solve this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steiner View Post
Ditto. Although I'd pop the valve covers to dab teflon paste on each of the head bolts one at a time, and do the same for the intake manifold bolts. If that bolt was loose enough to let water come out, it was loose enough to let water seep over into the valley and crankcase. Head bolts in water jacket will eventually weep coolant, and intake bolts will eventually weep oil.

Thanks for the advice. I was going to go back and use pipe sealant which I already have..Where do I get teflon paste?

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me solve this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomRider View Post
Chocolate milkshake smells like gas,then yes sounds like ya gas you kept pouring got in there.
Since it was running before, I would put fresh oil in and my bet would be yer ok.
Thats what I figured Scott, but how would the fuel get into the oil pan? Would it not just sit in the combustion chamber until it evaporates?

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 08:07 AM
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Re: Help me solve this?

i have seen alot of gas in oil it thins the oil but does not turn it milky sounds like water in the oil
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 08:15 AM
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Re: Help me solve this?

No the raw fuel you are pouring without a source of ingition gas will make its way down into the crank case and mix with oil. After sealing and changing fluids try again but only crank it a few times and recheck coolant in oil. If still leaking internal to engine then problem not solved if not fire it up !!! as they say. Good luck
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 08:39 AM
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Re: Help me solve this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bondora68 View Post
Thats what I figured Scott, but how would the fuel get into the oil pan? Would it not just sit in the combustion chamber until it evaporates?
Nope, as stated above, it will makes it way down in the engine, raw gas be eventually evaporate but not as quickly as your assuming escpecially raw gas down the carb. I try and always use a premuim starting fluid with upper cylinder lubricant to get an engine to fire. But, as most have been guility of using raw gas as well when in a pinch, but it's always risky.

Gas, will indeed make oil milky, plus he stated he could smell the raw fuel. Could possibly still have water issue as well, so not bad idea to check fluid levels, but still sounds like raw gas in oil system. Since motor did not fire I would doubt any harm done, if it had fired, you risked piston wash and a lean condition, plus would have lost the lubricating volicity of the oil eventually leading to big problems. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 08:53 AM
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Re: Help me solve this?

From what I have read you have 2 problems resulting in fuel and water in the oil pan. Let's hope washing the cylinders with fuel didn't waste the rings! Going forward fill the primary float bowl by pouring fuel into the vent tube. You can work the throttle and watch the squirters just before starting to know you are getting fuel to start the engine.

As for the water, if you are not going to pull the heads off get some Indian Head sealer and one at a time re-seal every bolt that goes into the water jacket to solve the leaking.

...Dennis

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 09:48 AM
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Re: Help me solve this?

Did you use any sealant on the intake gaskets? I'm thinking maybe the water soaked into the gasket while the bolt(a) where loose, weakening it around an intake and water ports and is now making its way into the engine before it gets to the cylinder?

Did you pull the plugs after cranking? Where all of them wet with fuel? Did you check all the other intake bolts?

Not saying this is the issues, just trying to help you narrow it down.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me solve this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSS1969 View Post
Did you use any sealant on the intake gaskets? I'm thinking maybe the water soaked into the gasket while the bolt(a) where loose, weakening it around an intake and water ports and is now making its way into the engine before it gets to the cylinder?

Did you pull the plugs after cranking? Where all of them wet with fuel? Did you check all the other intake bolts?

Not saying this is the issues, just trying to help you narrow it down.

I did use sealant on the intake gaskets and around all the water jacket holes.
I'm hoping that the water was only from that loose intake bolt. I checked all the other bolts to make sure none were loose. I did not check the other plugs to see if they were wet.
My plan is to seal every head and intake bolt, one at a time, and torque to proper specs. Install the new distributor, refill radiator, let new oil run down from the rocker arms to the oil pan, drain, and replace with new oil.

Tony
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 02:08 PM
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Re: Help me solve this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bondora68 View Post
I did use sealant on the intake gaskets and around all the water jacket holes.
I'm hoping that the water was only from that loose intake bolt. I checked all the other bolts to make sure none were loose. I did not check the other plugs to see if they were wet.
My plan is to seal every head and intake bolt, one at a time, and torque to proper specs. Install the new distributor, refill radiator, let new oil run down from the rocker arms to the oil pan, drain, and replace with new oil.
Might want to consider running oil through the motor without it running to see how much sludge comes out, if you have the oil primer for a drill. You will already have the distributor out. This might help get some water/gas out of the system before anymore gets to the bearing.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 14, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me solve this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSS1969 View Post
Might want to consider running oil through the motor without it running to see how much sludge comes out, if you have the oil primer for a drill. You will already have the distributor out. This might help get some water/gas out of the system before anymore gets to the bearing.

Good call..

Tony
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