Need strongert push rods for guide plates - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 14, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Need strongert push rods for guide plates

My Manley push rods are wearing from my guide plates and the ones I have says, For Use with Guide plates. I need a stronger brand like the steel they used on my original LT1 push rods. My LT1 push rods are too long for a roller cam. Any recommendations who sells 4130 chromoly?

Manley 25733-16

For Use with Guideplates: Yes
Pushrod Tube Diameter: 5/16 in.
Pushrod Material: Chromoly
Top Tip Style: Ball
Bottom Tip Style: Ball
Intake Overall Length (in): 7.200 in.
Exhaust Overall Length (in): 7.200 in.
One-Piece Pushrod: Yes
Oiling: Yes
Tapered: No
Tip Attachment: Formed
Top Tip Diameter: 5/16 in.
Bottom Tip Diameter: 5/16 in.
Wall Thickness (in): 0.080 in.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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Last edited by COPO; Jun 27th, 14 at 05:45 PM.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 14, 05:52 PM
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

Have you tried Smith Brothers?

http://www.pushrods.net/

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 14, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

No, I'm on my 1st set with about 600 mi on the motor.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 14, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

Isky has what I need. 1 piece 4130 for use with guide plates.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 14, 09:46 PM
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Tom
 
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Smile Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

Make sure you get the heat treated type.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 14, 05:34 AM
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by onovakind67 View Post
Have you tried Smith Brothers?

http://www.pushrods.net/
These^^^^^^^^^^

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 14, 07:12 AM
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Chuck
 
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

If you're abrading the sides of Manley pushrods while using them with guide plates, you either have a set that didn't get proper heat treat or you have some other misalignment problem. It's the heat treating that allows them to survive with guide plates. I've put thousands of 7000+ RPM runs on Manley and Manton pushrods that have been heat treated and I've never had an issue with abrasion.

If you're using aftermarket cylinder heads, the spacing may be a tad off. On those motors I use Isky adjustable guide plates to get the correct clearance.

I have my serious pushrods custom made to the correct length by Manton Pushrods in Lake Elsinore, California, (951) 245-6565, <www.mantonpushrods.com>. They make pushrods for all motors and their technical help is outstanding and their turnaround time on orders is fantastic.

Good luck,

c
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 14, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

Their GM 2.02 heads. My stock LT1 PR have about 132k on them with no wear, just little discoloring where the guides were. The Manley's I have, 12 out of 16 are wearing. I can take a knife to the side wall and scrape into it. When I try this on my OEM LT1 PR, the knife just slides off because it's so hard. That's the way it sb. One of the Manley PR got bent at a 45* at the wear spot. I'm not impressed with 600 mi.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 14, 09:39 AM
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

I believe cnorton has the best advice I have ever seen on pushrods.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 14, 05:00 AM
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Chuck
 
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

I believe that your last post reveals the crux of the problem. I've been running LT1 motors for the last fifteen years in race cars and on the street and they definitely require application-specific guide plates if you are using non-self-aligning rockers. Guide plates from a traditional small block head will fit properly under the rocker studs but they do not properly align with the normal travel path of the push rods. I've had good success with running either self-aligning rockers without guide plates or non-self-aligning rockers with Iskenderian adjustable guide plates. Be sure to take the time to carefully align each individual guide plate with the push rod on that specific cylinder before you tighten them down. It's a time consuming exercise but necessary in order to avoid problems such as you describe.

It sounds as if you may already have an undetermined amount of hardened steel debris floating around in your motor. If you have magnets secured with epoxy in the oil return channels of your heads you probably caught most of it. The next line of defense would be a magnetic drain plug. Lacking either of those safeguards, you might be well-served to dissect your oil filter and try to find out where the junk went. It doesn't take much of that stuff to ruin a set of bearings and trash your whole motor.

Good luck,

c
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 14, 08:05 AM
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by COPO View Post
Their GM 2.02 heads. My stock LT1 PR have about 132k on them with no wear, just little discoloring where the guides were. The Manley's I have, 12 out of 16 are wearing. I can take a knife to the side wall and scrape into it. When I try this on my OEM LT1 PR, the knife just slides off because it's so hard. That's the way it sb. One of the Manley PR got bent at a 45* at the wear spot. I'm not impressed with 600 mi.
Scrape them with a knife? Not heat treated properly. Wrong push rods labeled as the correct ones. Doesn't matter what they are made of if not heat treated correctly.

Uhh, btw, those manley push rods you have now ARE 4130 chrome moly.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 14, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

4 out of 16 are still good. There is no mention in the description that these are 4130's.

Maybe my friend here that makes .50/hr and doesn't give a F about part numbers put the wrong parts in the box. He gets the last laugh at all the Companies that are having parts made in China. Ah-so!


Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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Last edited by COPO; Jun 29th, 14 at 11:18 AM.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 14, 12:08 PM
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

You'll find your part number right on the 4130 Chrome moly pushrod page of the Manley catalog. http://www.manleyperformance.com/dl/2014/pushrods.pdf

Google is your friend.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 14, 12:28 PM
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnorton7311 View Post
If you're abrading the sides of Manley pushrods while using them with guide plates, you either have a set that didn't get proper heat treat or you have some other misalignment problem. It's the heat treating that allows them to survive with guide plates. I've put thousands of 7000+ RPM runs on Manley and Manton pushrods that have been heat treated and I've never had an issue with abrasion.

If you're using aftermarket cylinder heads, the spacing may be a tad off. On those motors I use Isky adjustable guide plates to get the correct clearance.

I have my serious pushrods custom made to the correct length by Manton Pushrods in Lake Elsinore, California, (951) 245-6565, <www.mantonpushrods.com>. They make pushrods for all motors and their technical help is outstanding and their turnaround time on orders is fantastic.

Good luck,

c
This /\/\/\/\.

While you probably don't need Manton pushrods with your motor, they are exactly as described, an awesome piece with exceptional customer service.

I had Manton make pushrods for my new motor, they are not cheap but an amazing piece. People don't realize how important a pushrod is, a lot of valve train carnage could have been avoided with a good quality pushrod.

I'm surprised the Manley pushrods failed though, they are typically a quality piece.

I would price a set of Smith bros. or Manton PR for you application, they may not be that much more but will be well worth it.

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 14, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Re: Need strongert push rods for guide plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefiness View Post
You'll find your part number right on the 4130 Chrome moly pushrod page of the Manley catalog. http://www.manleyperformance.com/dl/2014/pushrods.pdf

Google is your friend.
My walls are not black oxide finished. They are dull silver.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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