Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28 - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

With my roller cam at idle I'm only pushing 9" with the can disconnected from the stock dizzy with a Crane Xri and 10" connected with the stock LT1 can (201-15) using manifold vacuum. Using 7mm GM wires and a MSD Blaster 2 coil and AC R45 plugs.

My initial timing is 16* with vacuum plugged and total with vacuum plugged is 36* @ 3000 rpm. With the can connected the initial is 19*. So the can is giving me 3* advance and the dizzy has 20* mechanical advance in it.

When I tried the B28 can my idle would rev up and down like a super charger and turned my plugs black and crap was coming out of the tailpipes. The initial timing with vacuum connected to the B28 can was 34* at idle. Then there's 20* in the dizzy. It wouldn't idle right so I installed the stock 201-15 can back.

My stock 4555 Holley has no ported vac fitting in case someone says to try it.

Q:
What do I need to do to be able to use the B28 can for a better idle and help my plugs at idle and keep my 36* total advance?

If I drop the initial then my total timing will drop thus affecting performance and I don't want to do that. Do I need to change my distributor springs to one med and one light? I currently have the stock springs and weights in the stock dizzy.

The AC R45 plugs are fouling a bit on the drivers side only. The pass side 2-4-6-8 are white/grey in color using Shell premium with 0% ethanol. My Holley is the stock 4555 780 cfm. I changed the Prim jets to 68's from the stock 70's, and the stock 76's are still in the rear. Power valves front and rear are 5.0 compared for the stock 8.5.

Cam is
Lunati Roller 20120121
Advertised Duration (Intake/Exhaust) 278/288
•Duration @.050" (Intake/Exhaust) 232/242
•Gross Valve Lift (Intake/Exhaust) .507"/.507"
•Lobe Separation 112
•Intake Center Line 108
•RPM Range 2000-6400

The car runs fine to 6,000 rpm except for the little idling issue. I've got it set to 800 rpm and sometimes it goes up a bit and sometimes down a bit.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 07:16 AM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

I would say fashion a stop for the B28 can so you can limit it to around 10 degrees or so. I don't know if you can make this one work with it but maybe:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99619-1/overview/

If you want the full 16 then it looks like it's going to take dialing the initial back to 8-10, then figuring out how to change your mechanical weight stop or weight profiles to get the 6+ degrees back on the top end. Springs will only change the rate, not the total.

Adjustable can may be the way to go. Crane makes an adjustable can with adjustable rate and stop plate kit. However, they don't seem to provide specs for it anywhere. The Accel 31034 does at least have a chart:
http://prestoliteperformance.com/med...s_v8_31034.pdf

Either way I think the carb idle circuit and curb idle is going to have to be adjusted once you get the initial where you want it. Should be able to lean it out with the extra timing.

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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 07:21 AM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

Is that B28 can leaking ? Or do what Steiner is saying, even adjustable advance cans.

Do plugs get all dirty with the LT 1 can?

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 07:34 AM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

I would think about pulling the stock dizzy and going with an MSD 8360.

You can dial in your total advance and curve with the weights and springs included.

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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 07:39 AM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

Oh by the way with the 34 degrees advance at idle it was most likely rich misfiring since the carb wasn't dialed back yet.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17 View Post
Is that B28 can leaking ? Or do what Steiner is saying, even adjustable advance cans.

Do plugs get all dirty with the LT 1 can?
New B28 can, 1-3-5-7 plugs get dirty with 7 being the worst if I drive 30-40 mph. 2-4-6-8 are good-white/grey.

How about making an adjustable plate. Left red arrow on this persons example.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

On the Chevelle forum a guy made one and said 1/8" of travel of the can =10*.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 08:59 AM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

Mark , if that's your dist, that's some ingenuity ,
Sounds like the can is doing its job , unplugging and plugging as advance bumps up 3°. What about just running less initial and then when advance kicks in, you are at 16 or so?

Now the richness or sooty plugs part tells me something about the fuel flow on left bank. Is this the bank that's further or closest away from the clys? I am thinking in terms of a divided phlenum on a dual plane intake.

Is this issue something you have had or did it just pop up?

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

^^ no that's not mine^^. I was just showing an example of a plate to make. Remember there is zero vacuum at WOT so the vacuum advance can isn't in the picture, so if the can gives me 10* then at WOT I don't get that 10* back.

Mine is the stock points type that looks like. Here's an old photo.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 09:11 AM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

understood, at wot the weights have taken over. There may be just a few " vac but not enuff to do anything.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17 View Post
Now the richness or sooty plugs part tells me something about the fuel flow on left bank. Is this the bank that's further or closest away from the clys? I am thinking in terms of a divided phlenum on a dual plane intake.

Is this issue something you have had or did it just pop up?
Not sure what you mean about furthest away.
old photo

What I did was swapped out the 70 prim jets and tried 69's. I showed plug pics to my builder and he said the plugs still look fat. So I swapped in 68's the other day. The pass side are white/grey, but the other side is fat with carbon. The top of the GND strap is a little rough like sand paper.

Ya think the carbon is caused from driving between 30-40 mph with this cam? My builder also said to put another 1500 mi on the car to seat the 1st ring which is a low tension Moly ring cause the motor uses a bit of oil if I drive 3000 rpm and above. After the 1500 mi I'll have I guess 3,000 mi on the motor. Using 15w-40 Shell Rotella.

I don't know if the carb needs to be taken apart and cleaned and sprayed with compressed air or whether I still need to jet down the drivers side ONLY on the prim. Last resort I do have a 3310-2 Holley that I could try and see if the plugs run cleaner on the drivers side.

I think I'm going to first try a bottle of royal purple fuel system cleaner to get rid of any carbon I've built up.


Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 11:10 AM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

Sea Foam may help on the carb cleaning.

Looking at the intake, its the pass side of the intake that I call , furtherest away from the head intake port, which kills my thought of the driver side clys are the dirtest?
The driver side intake is the lower floor, with feed the pass side cly, 2 4 6 8 , those are further away from the head intake so, I was thinking a larger jet for the furtherest away as most fuel tends to hang on the floor . I guess this kills my theory. Maybe I am thinking in reverse , as well as the rest of my body.

I understand the low tension ring, if it wont seat, I have used Marvel oil and a teaspoon of Bon Ami, back car out of garage and gradually pour down carb with motor running fast until all is gone and smoke is cleared, may notify fire dept that all is ok.

Is that an eproxied valve cover I see on the driver side? I have the same but on the pass side. Got so bad I took it off and hung it on the wall.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 03:10 PM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

When you get tired of running around in circles, give me an email at

[email protected]

and, I will send you pictures and full instructions to set the 99619-1 adjustable Crane stop plate up correctly for the CRANE adjustable vacuum advance, it is the ONLY canister that will work down that low in vacuum. This plate is available separately for stock type GM vacuum advances, and comes with the Crane full advance kits.

"Adjustable" vacuum advances from other manufacturers DO NOT allow vacuum leveladjustment down to 4 in/hg levels, they stop around 7 to 8 in/hg of vacuum, like the B28 does in real life.

Neither the B28, nor the B26 (also widely used), WILL NOT work down to that vacuum level, but, the Crane will, down to 4 in/hg vacuum.

With 16 initial, you would want to use 8 degrees MORE timing, 4th serration on the Crane stop plate, from the "load compensator" (vacuum advance).

I am assuming you are intending to use FULL MANIFOLD VACUUM sourcing for the unit, as using ported vacuum is both a waste of time and not the way to do it right.
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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 03:55 PM
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

Dave, send the pics to me and I'll host them and post them. That way they'll benefit everyone. Click my user name for my email. Thanks.

Also, do you have a vac chart for the Crane can? They don't put one in their directions. I put a link to the Crane stop plate above.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 14, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tried to get a B28 vac can to work - 70 Z28

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17 View Post
Is that an eproxied valve cover I see on the driver side? I have the same but on the pass side. Got so bad I took it off and hung it on the wall.
Welded valve cover. I have new ones but the gasket edges are not as high as the factory, plus I had to shorten the oil drippers cause my short lock nuts were rubbing.

Mark 70 Z28 M22 3.73 Z21 Z87 - Lunati 20120121 Roller Cam

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